Chained Objectives and Gating Events

(Ifurita) #1

Just curious, what does everyone think about these two game mechanisms? Do they work? Does this work for more exciting gameplay?

For sake of definition, I’ll go with the following:

Chained Objective: A necessary sub-objective that HAVE to be accomplished prior to the final objective (e.g., blow tunnel grate, blow main gate, blow crypt, etc)

RTCW has a few of these, Village, Beach (possible to boost over wall), but for the most part, team can get to final objectives without ever having to meeting a pre-requisite, like blowing the Crypt on Village. ET has the tunnel grate, at a minimum, and the main gate - if the allied team can’t get a covert ops-engy combo working.

Gating Event: An event/objective that irrevocably changes the map (i.e., moves game to a new phase) once accomplished.

AFAIK, RTCW doesn’t have any of these in the standard maps. Tram may be the sole example. In Fuel Dump, once the tunnel door is blown, the middle spawn becomes an uncontestable Allied spawn point. There is no going back, which makes defending the bridge crossing pretty important.

RTCW typically uses contestable spawn flags (I think just about all the standard maps have them except Base) which people fight over all the time. This is not to say that ET does not have contestable spawn flags, but for the sake of argument, if Fuel Dump did have one, it would (IMO) make the game bog down as everyone ate up time trekking back and forth across the map. In the case of Fuel Dump, the loss of the forward spawn creates for a nice fight at the bridge, then moves the action nicely back to the fuel dump

Just rambling now

(damocles) #2

I think you answered your own question there iffy. The contestable spawn points are applicable to some maps but not to others.

I think it would be a nice touch if it was possible to construct the forward spawn point. Then in order to regain control the other side would have to dynamite it. The chances of dynamiting a spawn point are next to nil, but there will always be the lucky few…

The chained objectives is something that has worked brilliantly since the conception of RTCW. It shifts the focus of the map mid-way reducing repetitive play. Beach being the prime example where the Axis start out on all out combat attack mode and then have to fall back and revert to all out defence mode. It’s this variation of play in the middle of a match that elevates RTCW and ET above all other shooters.

(Dawg) #3

I like the concept in general. I also like how it was put into practice on Fuel Depot.

There is even teh transition from one stage to the next as a substage. For example, after the tunnel door is breached, there are still axis running around the first half that have to be dealt with. The allied engineers need to disable the axis CP too. Even on the second half there are sub-stages. The main gate is blown and the breach being blown being the primary divisions. The gameplay shifts with each step achieved… or at least it can… :slight_smile:

Dawg

(Vengeance) #4

I agree the Fuel Dump gives both teams a lot to think about and its a very interesting map. Lets hope the other 5 maps are just as good or even better than fuel dump. That would be something amazing.

I think this is gonna be one of the most popular FPS for many years to come and the fact its gonna be free just blows me away :clap:

Nice one Splash Damage :drink:

(SCDS_reyalP) #5

Splashdamage really seems to like to make the focus of play flow through the map, i.e. the spawns in tram, and the tank and spawns in fuel dump. It is certainly a nice way of keeping an otherwise large map focused. OTOH, it makes for long maps, which I am not especially fond of. It also requires large maps, which tend to perform poorly. When the game is well balanced, it is great fun, but if you are on a weak allies team in fueldump, getting owned for 30 minutes at a stretch isn’t particularly fun. A full campaign of it is down right painful. Same goes for a full ABBA of tram.

In both fuel dump and tram, you could split them into two maps without really changing the gameplay.

In the original wolf, the maps change fairly quickly. That, combined with stopwatch, really helps keep it interesting, IMO. Even if you get completely destroyed on one map, the next one may fit you teams skills better.

I agree that having the second allied spawn as flag would bog the game down. If I were to put a flag in fuel dump, I would put it at the allied command post.

Both styles certainly have their place.

(NoSoup4U) #6

I really like it how SD has been able to split up maps, and translocating the action across these maps, without actual gameplay being damaged.

The way they done it in the map Fueldump, is just one way to go about it (i really like the pre-opportunity of some sneaky engineer/covertops-combo) and i can only hope that they have more cool ‘flows’ like this going in the remaining 5 maps.

I myself am currently working on a map (better said campaign-idea) , whereas the decisions made by the ‘attacking’ team in a map, will influence the outcome for the next map (eg. two maps can be loaded, depending on which objective has been completed)

For instance, now i’m working on a map, where there are two teams (doh :wink: ) , one team has to defend the main objective (an ammo-depot) : but there’s also a secondary, even harder, objective : Stealing the enemy documents, which you have to extract, through the enemy lines, to their transmission-radio.

Either of these objectives can be completed, and both would have their advantages/disadvantages for the team: For instance :
If you would blow the ammo-depot (the ‘easier’ objective for the allies), the next map in the campaign, will be a map, which is slighlty more biased towards the axis team. Also, the map, could be set place in for instance, a harbour, as to suggest the axis are trying to get new ammo again.
if, in the previous map, the allies would have submitted the transmission documents, then the next map would set place in some other map.

Whereas making a campaign storydriven like this would require alot of maps :
but, not only ‘loading a different map on a different objective-fullfillment’ is what im planning on.

Im also busy (besides my IRL-stuff :wink: ) with sketching out ideas of how to ‘re-use’ maps (which would be easier to form ‘story-driven-campaigns’ on).
For instance, a map could be used in two different directions (the flow of the people), if , up front, the design is kept i mind.
Also, having the choice of for instance different skymaps in a map, could be used to create different athmospheres /stories to them.

I know this prolly sounds pretty confusing to you all , but i hope you get the main idea : A game you login to, and, while you make decisions as a team , it will decide the outcome of the ‘overall’ campaign, not only what the next map will be, but also other advantages/disadvantages)

As long as the fullgame is not yet out, i dont know what is possible with the current engine( without modding it.)
I would for instance really like to be able to have ‘choices’ in only one map : Being able to have a PanzerTank loaded in the map or not : things like that .
And also, to ‘switch’ spawns, etc.

This week i’ll be updating my website, and prolly putting on the idea behind this story-campaign.
I hope i can give more info about this project once the necessary editing files are released : till then, you can find screenies of the current map in progress on www.fpsgamedesign.com/screenies

Also, most likely, when they are released, i’ll be trying to recruit some mappers to get more content going.

(SmokeyTarget) #7

Sounds like a fantastic idea, I hope you can pull it off.

Isn’t it nice to have a positive thread once in a while? :banana:

(Vengeance) #8

I think its good that ppl are already thinking of creating new maps before the final is even released. Sounds like its gonna be a very, very long time before i get bored with ET.

Nice one NoSoup4U :clap: i look forward to testing out your maps in the future.

(ExPLiCiT) #9

What I think that would be an interesting addition to a map would be an idea I got from playing Bases in Wolf Tactics. You know how you can blow the radio transmitter so the enemy can’t transmit the docs and you have to wait a certain period of time before it is back to working condition again. I think this would add a new level of game play if applied to a spawn point, for example on fuel dump, if there was something you could blow in the forward spawn area after the allies blow the gate that would set back the spawn points for say 2 or 3 min. I would take some strategic planning to create an offence and a defense for this as well.

(Ragnar_40k) #10

Did you ever played WildWest mod? They use chained objectives and moving spawn points alot.

(ExPLiCiT) #11

isn’t that one that baltyboy did?

(Steve) #12

Yep, BB & Hewster. It’s a shame that you don’t see many servers running it now. It’s a great mod.