Casual Matchmaking won't work, and here's why


(watsyurdeal) #1

Casual Matchmaking, as far as I can tell, is a means to make more balanced games. There’s a few flaws here, one, there will always be players like Amerika, me, and some beginner player. Players like Amerika or Ragnak, will excel over the rest, the beginners will always need to learn and adapt and get better, and that will always be a trial by fire process, people like me are somewhere in between.

Second, there is NO WAY to quantify any of this, at least not in setting such as this. The only way it will work is a ranking system, where will climb and fall depending on our performance, and even then, we need a HEALTHY PLAYER POPULATION for it to work.

And third, and most important, is if people are missing easy details, aspects, or mechanics in your game, such as ammo, heals, revives, repairing and focusing on objectives, then you should be solving that problem FIRST. Because they are not quite getting the skills they need off the bat, and it snowballs into a problem later on.

Casual Matchmaking will not fix the balance issues we currently have with games, a proper tutorial will, as well as the Assault Courses so we can train and refine our skills.

My proposal is this.

  1. Make Fragger, Proxy, and Vasilli, free, or make them rewards
  2. Give Fragger, Proxy, and Vasilli, sections in the tutorial that explains their role and purpose in the game.
  3. Give them, and Aura, an assault course.
  4. Make the tutorial mandatory, but not the assault courses. Let those be optional and have rewards when you complete them. As in enough credits to buy the above mercs, or give them to the player upon completion.

By doing this, we are covering all the bases to ensure players are coming into the game with the knowledge they need to succeed and play well as a team.

Common arguments

  1. It won’t fix bad players being bad

No it won’t, if by ad you mean average kills, accuracy, etc

But fixing situations where people aren’t giving ammo, or healing, or reviving, or handling objectives, is definitely possible. Consider this, we’ve been at this whole “making games more balanced” thing for a YEAR, A FREAKING YEAR, the approach is NOT WORKING. We need to try a different way, you don’t try to rebuild the same structure in the same place, if the foundation is the issue.

  1. Why should the tutorial be mandatory? The game is easy to understand

Then why are we even HAVING this conversation? Assuming matchmaking matches people based on player ability, and assuming the game is easy to pick up and understand, we should be having balanced games all the time.

Maybe the issue is the maps, maybe the issue is the lack of counter play of certain mercs, or maybe the issue is people aren’t getting the knowledge and skills they need to play the game, from the moment they start their first match. Another analogy, you do not try to teach complex math problems, without teaching people the basic add, subtract, multiply, and divide. If they do not fully understand those, the later concepts will be more difficult. It’s basic understand of how people learn.

  1. ________ merc should not be free, it’s bad enough as it is in game when there’s more than one.

Then you will literally not be able to tell a difference, SERIOUSLY, you will not know a difference, if it seems like every game there is a Vasilli, Proxy, or whatever, then people are already buying these mercs constantly, likely their first choices. If we make them free, you may see people spending their credits on OTHER mercs instead, and we may see a more varied team composition. Plus, I could argue not everyone needs a Recon or Assault, but an Engineer is an IMMENSELY vital core of the game and how it flows. Every merc has their roles, and the Engineer is such an important one that it is baffling as to why one is not free.


(TheStrangerous) #2

Well, if SD ever makes any merc permanently free, that would have to come with a price. Those, who already bought them with money or credits could perhaps get free cobalt cards?


(blonk) #3

Alright I’ll bite, mainly because I can share some of your concerns but also still not be completely against the idea of casual MM.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;32474”]

  1. It won’t fix bad players being bad[/quote]

Sorta, I think the thing that causes players to immediately hit the forums and give @Amerika a thread to lock are people who are sick of having lopsided games, not necessarily because players are bad. You can have a “good” team and still have 1 or 2 ace holes wash you all around the map. When I reflect on giving us a server browser and CMM SD aren’t actually taking that bad of a stab at sorting this. Though I’d prefer community servers me :slight_smile:

One of the other major things that this game gets slammed for on Steam is the lack of party play. That’s the other often forgotten goal of CMM, to let you get all your mates into the same room and embark on some dirty bumming. The game needs it in some fashion, I think we can all agree on that one, even if not for our own personal needs.


(ThiagoJaqueta) #4

They once gave an Obsidian Phoenix for player who owned Phoenix when he was free. :wink:


(watsyurdeal) #5

You’re not entitled to anything, the game devs have clarified multiple times this is a beta and everything is subject to change.


(Amerika) #6

The goal isn’t to find perfectly balanced matches. All rational people who talk about this topic knows that it’s not possible to perfectly balance anything even in the best conditions. There are always factors that will sway a result, sometimes drastically, one way or another.

The goal of CMM is to try and get people at least in the same bracket in the same match. So you don’t end up with servers where there is one really good player thrown on a team with the worst on the server who then has to face a team of average players because the team skill rating matches up. That ends up in the player with the high rating not only needing to carry above their weight class but means that the people on that person’s team will get smashed by the consistently better players on the other team. There are other scenarios but that is a common one.

The goal is to get people who are in the same ballpark of skill spread out on both teams so there is a consistently good game. Games might not end up being the best balanced matches of all time but it’s better than what works today.

It also lets you play with your friends which is kind of a huge step up and something the game needed but it also required a matchmaking system so you couldn’t get some pals and go pub stomp (even if pub stomping wasn’t the goal). It will also encourage you and others to finish matches. I wish SD did drop-in replacements instead of penalties as penalties might make more people simply not want to play when they get into unavoidable situations and get a penalty for it. But at least there is a surrender option so that everyone can get to the next match quicker. It might also be a good segue into playing ranked as the game will become closer to how ranked plays.

I’m not opposed to the changes proposed. I just don’t think they are going to be something that cold be accomplished any time soon even if SD decided to go that route. I do, however, think that CMM will work if it’s done properly in regards to the amount of time it takes to queue both as yourself and with friends. Tons of games use that system. Hell, anybody who has played any MOBA or one of the more recent shooters or played on console is completely used to it or expects it. I don’t see it as a big deal as long as it works and as long as SD follows through with giving us community servers.


(frostyvampire) #7

*obsidian cards.

I don’t mind a free obsidian, but I’m heavily against making Vaseline free. To be honest I think that we only need a free engie and no more

[spoiler]You will start with 0 mercs and unlock Aura, Skyhammer and an engineer merc (I’d say Bush or Turtle) once you complete the tutorial
Then, remove the free gold card reward and 30,000 credits at level 4 and replace them with rewards received for completing courses

Skyhammer assault course - Keep it as it is now. Reward: a case with a random bronze Skyhammer card
Aura course - Heal and revive all dummies as fast as you can (they will be taking damage even after revived so you have to place your health station well). Reward: a case with a random bronze Aura card
Proxy course - Repair EV, escort EV (short distance) and destroy objective (C4 will detonate after 25 seconds instead of 50) while fighting against an enemy Proxy, Skyhammer and Aura (bot AI will have to be added). Reward: 10,000 credits
Fragger course - Kill 15 bots without dying (random mercs that are not recons, bots don’t respawn). Reward: 15,000 credits
Vassili course - Score 15 headshots with your sniper rifle (2 dummies, 7 moving dummies at different speeds and 6 bots while 1 of them is Vassili). Bodyshots will do no damage and you will only have your sniper rifle. Reward: 10,000 credits

Dying in any of the courses will require you to redo them and you will have infinite ammo (but you still have to reload) in all of them
[/spoiler]

TL;DR: I agree with everything except the free mercs and I’ve written what I think the course should be and what they will reward upon completion


(Herr_Hanz) #8

one thing that might be usefull is being able to play any map in offline mode, without having to go to the tuturial and put the map switch in the console. EDIT: basically a private match. but locally instead of online.

i like your idea of mercs rewarded after a course. community matchmaking needs to happen to allow teaming with friends.


#9

You don’t have to enter the tutorial to start an offline map.
It works just fine from the main menu, too.


(Sorotia) #10

One person doesn’t make a match, I’ve played matches with amerika that we’ve lost, I’ve played matches against amerika that I’ve won.

One person winning a match only happens when the majority of a whole other opposing team is pretty bad…

The matchmaking has it’s problems but from the testing I did earlier this week I’m pretty sure I didn’t play a game where one team was completely steamrolled.

(My biggest complaint of it was I was on offensive every single match)


(SiegeFace) #11

From what I played of the test, it was a far better experience than “pubs”. Of course the more people I had in my party the better the games became, I see this CMM for friends/clans etc to finally group together and to enjoy playing matches on the same team at a similar skill level.

I had a blast with it when I was rolling with a 5 man and with some tight games too. I can’t imagine however CMM being something for the casual solo player/newbie (unless they party up with other new players) as the quick join/server browser function will more likely become the norm for solo players.


(pumpkinmeerkat) #12

#freeturtle


(geronimoooo) #13

[quote=“Sorotia;205628”]One person doesn’t make a match, I’ve played matches with amerika that we’ve lost, I’ve played matches against amerika that I’ve won.

One person winning a match only happens when the majority of a whole other opposing team is pretty bad…

The matchmaking has it’s problems but from the testing I did earlier this week I’m pretty sure I didn’t play a game where one team was completely steamrolled.

(My biggest complaint of it was I was on offensive every single match)[/quote]

I played games with @DTkiddin and against this guy and we have a running joke. As long as we kill him once during a night, we already fill the quota for an entire week.

I also played matches against DT, that we won and played matches with him that we lost. It happens, but its so rare, it is barely noticeable.

Under current system, there are great enough players who can carry a really bad team against a good team, as long as they at least get a medic that throws an occasional medpack on the ground.

During last CMM though, games seemed more balanced even with DT in our party and it didnt end up a complete stomp. It was actually quite close and if thats how it will be, I wouldnt mind CMM at all.

However, I only play with streamers and we sometimes end up with 10-12/16 filled just by people from stream. So I imagine, we end up staying on a server browser during streams anyways.

EU has some really highly skilled players, but sadly, more and more stop playing over time. Even though they love the game, its either bugs, performance issues or new players who dont know how to use Q or E that made them stop playing the game.


(Dawnlazy) #14

I’m honestly not interested in CMM at all. How is it going to be any more successful than ranked was? Why would someone who wasn’t interested in ranked want to play ranked-lite? I think the “casual” gamemode is CSGO is absolute garbage and nowhere near as fun as a DB pub. Servers have huge advantages over MM, in fact they’re one of the biggest advantages of PC gaming in general. You can simply look at the tab, choose a server based on ping, map, player count, level restriction etc etc. I would much rather have all this effort put into making community servers available.


(watsyurdeal) #15

^ I’m mashing the agree button as hard as I can


(PlatinumCLAW) #16

Balance by level is the best way to go, now any number of people who disagree with this is not gonna matter, unless you give it a chance and see it by yourselves. Most of the time we have more than 3 100+ level on one team and more than 5 level 10- people on one team, call that balanced. According to me, experience beats skill 8/10 times.


(BerylRdm) #17

I think I will finally do what I planned for a long time - I will do some math concering levels and final score.

But @on topic - measuring skill by xp/minute is a misunderstaning.


(SaulWolfden) #18

Honestly, I’d say no to free Proxy, simply because I think it’d be better when they add Turtle to make him the free Engineer. Fully agree the tutorial must be mandatory, too many people are clueless about the most basic concepts. It’s not like the tutorial takes more than maybe 5 minutes to do anyway.


(Szakalot) #19

Amerika pretty much covered this:

the main goal of matchmaking is to separate low/mid/high players. There are unbalanced games where you lose, and there are ABSOLUTE STOMPS: matchmaking will make the stomps much less likely to happen. An unbalanced game can still be fun to play, if people are of similar skill level and you can have proper fights.

Putting high skill and low skill players on the other hand is not fun for anyone. Low skills get smashed, and they don’t even know how. High skilled players are super bored smashing clueless newbies.

While it is difficult to nail down all the different aspects of skill in a game like DB, it is definitely easy to ensure that someone like Amerika never encounters <10 lvl players.

Additional benefit of matchmaking is the setup: people are more likely to play as a team if they invested a bit of time into getting a game, and are playing with a particular set of players (rather than the drop in/out)


(Teflon Love) #20

They are trying to build a better matchmaking algorithm than the one currently used by ranked. Also the player base for CMM is bigger than for ranked.