@frostyvampire said:
I really want them to bring back the forward spawn. It made Terminal unique compared to other maps.
Problem with the forward spawn is that once the attackers have taken it you are unlikely to recover from that since you can only exit the defenders’ spawn through two easily coverable chokepoints. Which I guess is the point, but I would rather lose that stage through skill instead of map design.
The few rounds I played so far were quite enjoyable. It’s pretty fast paced now because attackers have many options and defenders can’t really hole in anywhere but do have cover as long as they keep moving.
I haven’t had a match where attackers could not get past the first objective. So the main issue with Terminal seems to be solved. Good work overall!
It’s too early to suggest how it can be improved further but things I noticed:
The map does not need a forward spawn now, but it would be nice to have it back for a future map. The general mechanic was fun but I think the implementation was lacking. I can’t remember when I finally figured out why sometimes the team was spawning in the backyard and sometimes near stairs but I’m sure it was at an embarrassingly high level. If you do a forward spawn again maybe mark the area with a special color that’s not used anywhere else (e.g. some saturated green), add an audio effect while taking it and add something visual when it’s finally taken (like closing a gate to lock down a defenders route).
At this point they can remake the 2nd part of the map so is going to be a new map. And they can just leave the old terminal like it used to be. So we have 1 more map, old terminal and terminal 2.0
The old one was a pain on the attacker side.
I’ve literally had multiple stopwatch games, where the attackers couldn’t push out of spawn for 15 minutes, then switch sides and the same thing happened.
If something like this happens multiple times, it is definately the map’s fault, so the rework was needed.
@Zalamael said:
@watsyurdeal said:
No/endthread
Are you some kind of forum giant or something? Your posts seem to have a great deal of arrogance to them.
The map has just been changed, it is worthy of having a real discussion.
Tell me what about the 1st point of old terminal was good?
The super easy to lockdown secondary objective? The sniper sightline to the bomb plant, or the reverse sightline to hold down attackers in spawn? The little cubby area above the right spawn that an Aura can set up shop in? Please, enlighten us as to why we should take steps back toward a map that basically gives the defenders most of the advantages.
Terminal and Trainyard are both like this, anything that give attackers more options and ways to get things done is good. A game that stalemates is not a good thing, it should be about how fast one team can complete the objectives vs the other, the maps need a good easy flow, where stalemates only happen in extreme circumstances.
@Zalamael said:
@watsyurdeal said:
No/endthread
Are you some kind of forum giant or something? Your posts seem to have a great deal of arrogance to them.
The map has just been changed, it is worthy of having a real discussion.
Seems more like he was joking bud, or at least being intentionally blunt for the sake of comedy.
Why didn’t they ask us players where changes was needed much like what they did with underground ? Personally i find it as bias if not more towards defenders than previously.
I like new terminal visually more. Still need to sharpen tactics, but it seems lot easier to get first half of map done. Now we need map like Siwa Oasis again. Capture forward spawn/destroy wall and destroy anti-tank guns is a perfect structure. There needs to be tunnel network, filled with gas or water. Lots of camping spots on roofs and possibility to trickjump straight to last objective (difficult).
The map was reworked so that it could be easier for the attackers to take the first point, and I think this was done a little _too _well. Nearly all the matches I’ve played on new terminal ends up with the attacking team taking the first point in 2 minutes at the most.
@Cordyceps said:
The map was reworked so that it could be easier for the attackers to take the first point, and I think this was done a little _too _well. Nearly all the matches I’ve played on new terminal ends up with the attacking team taking the first point in 2 minutes at the most.
As i said in a diff topic. The devs have been horrid in balancing things lately. The map didnt really need such a big rework and as it stands your either spawn camped from the start or you cant defend anything. Theres no balance in the map anymore and god forbid a broken phantom is on a team.
From my own personal experiences, the new Terminal has been a blast for me, both Attacking and Defending. In the case of the Defending side, I find myself holding out the chokepoints fairly well with Phoenix alone, but there are sneaky players that lock up the door to that area from the left side defender spawn. On attack, people tend to forget about the left side (right side defender) side far too often, allowing me to flank a lot. Perhaps a bit too much. I think SD can maybe take alook at the side opposite the point and see why it isn’t being used a whole lot. I keep forgetting I still have access to a balcony with the MG, so I’ll have to get used to taking that route more often.
@Rokon2 said:
From my own personal experiences, the new Terminal has been a blast for me, both Attacking and Defending. In the case of the Defending side, I find myself holding out the chokepoints fairly well with Phoenix alone, but there are sneaky players that lock up the door to that area from the left side defender spawn. On attack, people tend to forget about the left side (right side defender) side far too often, allowing me to flank a lot. Perhaps a bit too much. I think SD can maybe take alook at the side opposite the point and see why it isn’t being used a whole lot. I keep forgetting I still have access to a balcony with the MG, so I’ll have to get used to taking that route more often.
It mostly isn’t used as it only really has the largest impact during the Right-side Lane push for Attackers; it proves more effective, in practice, for Defenders to flank and create crossfires. After a successful push it has very limited usage, for the Attackers, as it can no longer cover the c4 as effectively as it used to; In general, at least in my opinion, the Left-side Lane requires a coordinated team effort for the Attackers to make use of it; which is something that can’t be counted on to be a consistent occurrence in public matches, thus resulting in an underutilized lane on the map. The 1st Phase of the rework still suffers all the same issues as the old one with the removal of the Forward Spawn; something that should’ve been kept, considering how far the Attacker-side Spawn is in comparison to the Defender-side Spawn. The problems that have always existed with the map were only magnified, or at the very least more blatantly apparent, by the removal of the Forward Spawn.
If it still had the Forward Spawn I would likely not avoid it as much as I do because, as it stands, I avoid the “New” Terminal like the Plague unless there are a bunch of friends and/or competent players on the server these days; the map can easily become aneurysm-inducing to play without a good team. Some might bring up how the 1st Phase can end in 2 minutes, something that only happens when the teams are heavily imbalanced; that is basically a stomp, not something you would use as an example to argue that the map is balanced. When you have good players on both sides of the board fairly evenly distributed that map is torture to play through on the 1st phase; it’s basically Bridge’s 1st Phase, a battle of attrition where you wait to see who will mess up first (and that alone will weigh the most into the outcome for that part of the map).
P.S. @stayfreshshoe For a game that touts itself as a fast-paced shooter, having stages of a map boil down to a battle of attrition is completely counter-intuitive; it takes what could be a fast-paced, adrenaline-fueled experience, and brings it to a grinding halt. If there was any reason I would have a problem with the Terminal Redux, it would be that; it’s a buzz-kill, plain-and-simple, and goes against what Dirty Bomb claims to be. Quite a few maps in Dirty Bomb, such as Bridge and Terminal for instance, have a 1st Phase which stalls out far too easily; both before and after the reworks. I can only hope Splash Damage does something about this before 1.0’s release, because it needs to be addressed; this is just my opinion on the matter, based on what I can glean of your intentions for the game’s design, so it could just be a pure difference of opinion.
they should create a topic on the old map, so that our ideas and opinions are posted.
The old terminal could be relaunched with minor adjustments, and the Redux become a completely new map.
then everyone would be happy
I like the new map, even though the first side is more attacker sided, they still have to fight through the 2nd objectives.
Plus no more instant spawncamps.
@Lord_Coctus said:
I like the new map, even though the first side is more attacker sided, they still have to fight through the 2nd objectives.
Plus no more instant spawncamps.
The very 1st game I played on this redux we had the attackers camped within a minute. If thats not instant idk what is.
@WatchAsILead said:
Another vet that hates everything SD does, New Terminal is awesome.
Dont hate everything sd does. I jist hate change and i realy liked the old maps better.
I just have to say I really love the new Terminal. It has a bunch of verticality and choke points and really requires good communication for either team to succeed on it well. The second point also eliminated some cheeky stupid spots and I much prefer it.
The old terminal was just a shitshow of CDA destroying you from every single angle. If you put an aura station in MG room with a fragger or other power merc there, it was literally impossible to get through. In the new terminal, you don’t necessarily have to run out in the open to be able to plant C4, which is a step in the right direction. The old terminal was way too open and essentially a killing field for the CDA. I feel like it still needs a bit more time however to fully see the extent of the changes.
When I tried out new Terminal I was like: “Wow so easy now to attack in this map! Too much favor for attackers.”
But apparently that was the intent? Will SD change it again if attackers are too successful?