2 - Yes
40 - No
Smooth and Anti, you was not allowed to vote! 
Can we get just a LITTLE clarification?
stealth6
(stealth6)
#42
Itâs not difficult to feel like our feedback is not taken into consideration when there is no open communication. You just drop a bomb on us and then wait to see if the majority of the feedback is negative or not, but I doubt you actually read the content. Then after weeks of whining finally you write 1 monster post with info and then weâre back to the silence game.
BomBaKlaK
(BomBaKlaK)
#43
+1
10chars
[QUOTE=potty200;504328]2 - Yes
40 - No
Smooth and Anti, you was not allowed to vote! :P[/QUOTE]
Mouhahahahahahaha !
Bitey
(Bitey)
#44
Itâs really frustrating when there are mountains of debates with no real indication from the development team what the decision will be made going forward. The highlights of the last 40 days of spawn debate are document in this thread and these other two:
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/40807-Simple-idea-for-a-new-Respawn-System
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/40365-Spawn-times
There are a plethora of reasoning, logic, and detailed debates mostly between memebers of the community with neither side being correct. The main thing is just design a system that works and give it a test, it matters not whoâs idea it is only that the solution be tested sooner rather then later. If itâs really about giving detailed reasoning and personal opinions then I will present my own from here too:
In my view the ETQW system is effectively dated, and the current map design would not benefit from utilizing a 20/30(Atk/def) rolling wave or any other timer setting. The problem with the old system stems from the fact that the size of the maps, pace of the game, and itâs overall flow do not work well with the traditional ET system. I believe that Pixeltwitch has the proper analysis that using this particular spawn system will lead to very formulaic map designs. While you solve for each map with a particular spawn timer configuration it would take great lengths ensure quality configurations. Always being required to look under a microscope while mapping would be tedium unbound.
A proper spawn solution will utilize several key points to encourage better gameplay:
-
Ensure that dying sends a player into a que where they are temporarily removed from the field.
-
Ensure that teams can spawn together with ease and simplicity.
-
Ensure that spawn system works in both public and competitive play.
-
Ensure that the wave/spawn timers are quick and efficient, while also promoting steady pacing.
-
Ensure that waiting is not always the best practice when timing attacks on a spawn wave.
As for the system I prefer I still think that either the Dystopian system, Tf2 system, PixelTwitch Specialâ˘, or the PixelTwitch Lite⢠will be the best setups to utilize.
http://www.openprocessing.org/sketch/129971 - Dystopia wave setup with toys to play with itâs settings.
Dystopia systems ensure that itâs valid to push at any time as long as you can chain the kills together by adding time per death. You can tweak many different variables to ensure a set balance between classes/mercs, and time caps so that teams are never forced to wait too long.
PixelTwitch Special⢠Is a combination of the Dystopia wave plus some of his handy work in trying to design something that would be a quick spawn wave but also punishes the first death, rewards revivings, and punishes full clears. Itâs likely one of the most interesting ideas to try out.
PixelTwitch Lite⢠(aka my idear on his setup) Is a revamp on an earlier idea that I enjoyed which he never shared. It punishes the first death of any team with a spawn wave timer which will start with the first down, it has a few variations of how to break the wave apart to ensure that dying is always punished with a time to spawn. Itâs closer to a TF2 wave spawn setup.
Just make a new spawn system and try it out. I havenât cared for the spawns since the start because it has always been bland. The randomness and the ease of control donât encourage stable gameplay. I expect good things and new systems, get to it splash damage!
Rex
(Rex)
#45
Sorry, what was your main argument against the old spawn system if you forget about the wrong times set?
I donât understand what you try to say. 
Of course it requires time to get all the times in balance, but thatâs what Alpha/Betas are for.
Bitey
(Bitey)
#46
Sorry, what was your main argument against the old spawn system if you forget about the wrong times set?
The entire arugment is that the spawn system is bad. Iâll again post my original attempt at solving for spawns as Iâve done in a past post:
[th]ATK[/th]
[th]DEF[/th]
[th] Difference[/th]
[th]Wave[/th]
0
0
0
1
21
27
6
2
42
51
9
3
63
75
12
4
84
99
15
5
105
123
12
6
126
150
9
7
147
177
6
8
168
204
0
9
A repeating spawn wave, even with time differences between attack and defense will always perform similar to this table. It showcases how with the older spawn times of 21/27(Atk/def) spawn waves worked out over the course of time until the cycle repeats itself. This system from my limited ET experience was getting close to the ET/ETQW wave setup. The entire problem with this configuaration stems from the frustrating performance in public play, and the lackluster styles it encourages in competitive matches.
Traditionally with the ET system will resolve around these core aspects:
Wait for the proper time to attack, pause the action for optimal push times to roll around. During the course of a game there will be given times where the advantage sways from defenders to attackers based on how the waves will match up over a match. This means that youâre timings for optimal play is based less well organized pushes and more on optimally timed attacks. Itâs not terrible, but itâs not the best way to encourage a high octane play game if you want to encourage aggression, forward plays and focus on frags.
Please keep in mind that aggression is whatâs interesting to watch. Big plays and big frags are what excite the masses in a streamed/spectating environment. This system however forces a team to pace themselves even while obtaining optimal positioning and play advantage over their opponent. Rather then the position of the enemy team, lineup, or other traditional tactical advantages the respawn timer ends up being a massive deterrent on to when to commence an organized attack, You are delaying the action due to the timer itself, to start the play rather then springing the action the moment it is ready. That in itself is one of the major flaws of this ETQW system.
The biggest issue is that this system delays action, plays, and tactics on a fundamental level regardless of two teams opposing skills.
This is the problem that I allude to and my reasoning behind why itâs not a succesful system to utilize! Is that clear enough now? 
I donât understand what you try to say.
This whole post should help!
Of course it requires time to get all the times in balance, but thatâs what Alpha/Betas are for.
The entire problem is that you can design this system to potentially work with intensive effort on designing every new map. But it still wonât solve the underlying problems which I define above, not to mention it just adds to the development cycle of a map rather then giving freedom to the mappers. Have a system that works well in every map equally with as little variation is always going to be better. And now is the time to test different spawn systems since we still are in the beta/alpha 
onYn
(onYn)
#47
Allowing chained kills to have a influence on the spawn, as well as individual spawns, may be something that´s worth to take a look at.
However, they shouldn´t throw off the balance of common Obj game tactics (or at least those that are apreciated by SD) or create a even more desolate spawn system then the current one or those we know from ET/ETQW. Depending on how the devs want the game to be played, the right spawn system will be picked - that´s one of the things I kinda have confidence in 
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#49
[QUOTE=Bitey;504464]The entire arugment is that the spawn system is bad. Iâll again post my original attempt at solving for spawns as Iâve done in a past post:
[th]ATK[/th]
[th]DEF[/th]
[th] Difference[/th]
[th]Wave[/th]
0
0
0
1
21
27
6
2
42
51
9
3
63
75
12
4
84
99
15
5
105
123
12
6
126
150
9
7
147
177
6
8
168
204
0
9
A repeating spawn wave, even with time differences between attack and defense will always perform similar to this table. It showcases how with the older spawn times of 21/27(Atk/def) spawn waves worked out over the course of time until the cycle repeats itself. This system from my limited ET experience was getting close to the ET/ETQW wave setup. The entire problem with this configuaration stems from the frustrating performance in public play, and the lackluster styles it encourages in competitive matches.
Traditionally with the ET system will resolve around these core aspects:
Wait for the proper time to attack, pause the action for optimal push times to roll around. During the course of a game there will be given times where the advantage sways from defenders to attackers based on how the waves will match up over a match. This means that youâre timings for optimal play is based less well organized pushes and more on optimally timed attacks. Itâs not terrible, but itâs not the best way to encourage a high octane play game whoâs job is to encourage aggression, forward plays and focus on frags.
Please keep in mind that aggression is whatâs interesting to watch. Big plays and big frags are what excite the masses in a streamed/spectating environment. This system however forces a team to pace themselves even while obtaining optimal positioning and play advantage over their opponent. Rather then the position of the enemy team, lineup, or other traditional tactical advantages the respawn timer ends up being a massive deterrent on to when to commence an organized attack, You are delaying the action due to the timer itself, to start the play rather then springing the action the moment it is ready. That in itself is one of the major flaws of this ETQW system.
The biggest issue is that this system delays action, plays, and tactics on a fundamental level regardless of two teams opposing skills.
This is the problem that I allude to and my reasoning behind why itâs not a succesful system to utilize! Is that clear enough now?
This whole post should help!
The entire problem is that you can design this system to potentially work with intensive effort on designing every new map. But it still wonât solve the underlying problems which I define above, not to mention it just adds to the development cycle of a map rather then giving freedom to the mappers. Have a system that works well in every map equally with as little variation is always going to be better. And now is the time to test different spawn systems since we still are in the beta/alpha ^_^[/QUOTE]
i do not find anything bad in this. this is a feature of spawnwave system. imho it is a very good system exactly because it gives this kind of depth in the strategy and tactics. the pace dynamically changes every several second. now you can go all crazy, but several seconds later- you better be carefull.
Glottis-3D
(Glottis-3D)
#50
-
imho this dumping down the battle, making it TDM. this not for stopwatch gameplay - mb for other mod. Stopwatch is a boxing match with pushes, Unexpected strikes. With change in the pace.
-
agreed. it works in proper traditional spawnwave system perfectly.
-
agreed.
-
agreed on 1st. but steady pace i dont like. steady pace it imho boring to play and boring to watch. i love quake, but i hate watching TDM matches - because after 5 minutes it is the same chain of fragsfrags frags. only the Quaddamage period makes it interesting. exactly because of significent change in the battle, pace and strategy.
-
back to the boxing match - timing your attack is the key to success!
iwound
(iwound)
#51
What is the current spawn system? Last i knew it was trickle spawn defence, attack very short waves.
If it is then we have a huge thread regarding this.