Bushwacker Nerfed

(jubilantManatee) #1

Poor Bushwacker.

The only balance change of the latest patch is to increase the cooldown on relocating his turret, by reducing reclamation cooldown to 65% from 80%.

The turret is the only thing old BW has going for him - and at its best it is a gimick for luring noobs to their death.

When deployed against an experienced player, the turret is of very limited use. As soon as they hear or see the turret, it goes down in short order.

BW turret has very low health, and the redeploy time was already a bit much.

To be "successful " with the turret, you need to relocated it often - and that’s not going to be happening with the additional redeploy time.

Too bad. I liked to wack some bushes on occasion, even though most times any other engineer would have been a better choice.

(MisterBadmin) #2

I have a feeling that it wasn’t a targeted nerf at Bushwhacker but a general strike against redeploying (See Aimee, Aura, Ammo Stations).
I’d assume that there will be a reduced cooldown in the next patch that actually changes gameplay.

(Equanimity) #3

I agree, and the change to Aimee’s snitch reclaim cooldown, too, is a really big hit to her. Being able to reclaim and quickly re-position it was one of the only things she had going for her to make her a viable alternative to Vasilli since he can just place his spotting device somewhere it’ll never be seen with 100% up time. He already has better secondaries and arguably a better primary in the MoA. With grandeur Aimee you’re usually on the move a lot and are constantly re-positioning your snitch before it gets destroyed. This update sucks. Hard.

(Equanimity) #4

[quote=“MisterBadmin;188719”]I have a feeling that it wasn’t a targeted nerf at Bushwhacker but a general strike against redeploying (See Aimee, Aura, Ammo Stations).
I’d assume that there will be a reduced cooldown in the next patch that actually changes gameplay.[/quote]

True, but you’d think they’d have some kind of forethought before going and nerfing something across the board about how it will effect the more deployable-reliant mercs… Seriously. How dense would you have to be not to? Is there really anyone who could say that deployables were OP? I’ve never seen a “nerf deployables” thread.

(jubilantManatee) #5

I rarely see enemy Bushwackers, and when I do, it’s such an easy counter.

Maybe because I used him so often that I’m aware of his pitfalls.

Irony that the patch last week was delayed because “Bushwacker was nowhere to be found”?

Because I think his presence on the battlefield will now be reduced even further.

(MisterBadmin) #6

[quote=“Equanimity;188724”][quote=“MisterBadmin;188719”]I have a feeling that it wasn’t a targeted nerf at Bushwhacker but a general strike against redeploying (See Aimee, Aura, Ammo Stations).
I’d assume that there will be a reduced cooldown in the next patch that actually changes gameplay.[/quote]

True, but you’d think they’d have some kind of forethought before going and nerfing something across the board about how it will effect the more deployable-reliant mercs… Seriously. How dense would you have to be not to? Is there really anyone who could say that deployables were OP? I’ve never seen a “nerf deployables” thread.[/quote]

I do believe it to be a change to disincentivize “farming” with deployables that the team could really use.
I think it overextends a lot in regards to our engineer friend, and really should have been accompanied by ~7 seconds lopped off the cooldown.

(Equanimity) #7

[quote=“MisterBadmin;188732”][quote=“Equanimity;188724”][quote=“MisterBadmin;188719”]I have a feeling that it wasn’t a targeted nerf at Bushwhacker but a general strike against redeploying (See Aimee, Aura, Ammo Stations).
I’d assume that there will be a reduced cooldown in the next patch that actually changes gameplay.[/quote]

True, but you’d think they’d have some kind of forethought before going and nerfing something across the board about how it will effect the more deployable-reliant mercs… Seriously. How dense would you have to be not to? Is there really anyone who could say that deployables were OP? I’ve never seen a “nerf deployables” thread.[/quote]

I do believe it to be a change to disincentivize “farming” with deployables that the team could really use.
I think it overextends a lot in regards to our engineer friend, and really should have been accompanied by ~7 seconds lopped off the cooldown.[/quote]

Absolutely. It wouldn’t even be a hard change to make. Same for Aimee. Nor would any actual weapon balance changes either but those are nowhere to be found either…

(Weekendwarrior) #8

Yup significant nerf to Bush:( Gotta get smarter with the turret placement

I better learn Fletcher quick

(jubilantManatee) #9

Poor Bushwacker.

And I just obtained his best turret / defence card in the past few days.

Bad timing.

(Dawnlazy) #10

[spoiler]It was in preparation for Turtle and his deployable shield.[/spoiler]

(Equanimity) #11

[quote=“jubilantManatee;188831”]Poor Bushwacker.

And I just obtained his best turret / defence card in the past few days.

Bad timing.[/quote]

Me too, in colbalt no less. Just got some playtime in with it and he’s still a beast, just means you can’t refresh your turret very quickly when you need to anymore.

(jubilantManatee) #12

It was just disappointing to have a lesser seen merc get a hopefully unintentional nerf.

He is large, not particularly fast, and just another smg jockey. The turret is Bushwacker.

The nerf is real.

(Szakalot) #13

the annoying part ia that the nerf is not a balance change.

putting a turret up to quickly reinforce a firebase is a very nice tactic, it does rely on being able to pick it up and put it down somewhere else quickly though. this nerf adds a few more seconds before you can redeploy, which is quite significant.

why not just remove the silly xp for putting a turret down, and bring the cooldown back to 80%

(bgyoshi) #14

Just so you know, you guys are complaining about an extra 1 - 4 seconds depending on how long your turret is down. This will discourage you from dumping a turret to get 1 kill instead of using your gun, and require you to place it smartly. If you’re dropping a turret in a smart location to leave it there and move it as spawn waves shift attack points, this patch won’t do anything to you. If you’re using your turret as your main weapon, re-positioning it after every kill, you need to stop playing Bushwhacker anyway.

Besides, there were no weapon changes. Maybe a turret damage buff is incoming with the release of Turtle.

(jubilantManatee) #15

If you’re not moving your turret, then you sir are doing it wrong.

It needs to be moved frequently, because once it’s been discovered by a single enemy, it’s toast and there goes your only reason to take bushwacker.

If your opponent is repeatedly being gunned down by your turret that’s sitting in the same location - they are noob or you’re getting unusually lucky.

Every second counts in Dirty Bomb. Nerfing BW was unwarranted.

(Equanimity) #16

Every time someone sees your turret, if it isn’t dead (which it is quite beefy with steady) it is more than likely severally bruised. It WILL die and incur a full cooldown unless you move it. Not being able to replace it within 11.5~ seconds (As opposed to within 7~ seconds pre-nerf) of your last deployment severely cripples the reliability of the turret as well as the skill cap of Bushwhacker himself. A 4.5~ second increase to redeployment is a massive nerf. Not only to the turret itself but to the merc. Bush literally is his turret. It is his only cooldown. He has the longest base cooldown in the game for a ‘single skill merc’ and there are no augments available to him to lower that cooldown. The turret is not useful as a ‘set it and forget it’ object on the map. It needs constant maintenance. Sure, he has a decent health pool, decent weapons, and he is an engineer, but his turret being so immobile and easy to kill for any decently skilled player is his downfall, and his ability to quickly redeem his turret after placing it, because it took damage and may have helped him win a trade (when against skilled opponents they will typically stick together) was a hallmark of giving him near-persistent combat utility, which similar mercs of his size/speed/health have in their superior weaponry and/or abilities.

It isn’t the end of the world, but as Jubilant stated, ‘It was unwarranted’. He needs some kind of compensation to really revitalize his play style, or at least his overall battlefield presence against intelligent opponents.

(Szakalot) #17

pushing with turret was a great playstyle: you flank opponents and open up when turret is ready, for extra DPS. im not buying the argument its ‘bad positioning’ it was a valid tactic that is now significantly nerfed

(bgyoshi) #18

This only applies to an instant drop. Remember the cool down is percentage based, and 65% of 10 is less time than 65% of 30. If you drop your turret and it’s INSTANTLY discovered by the enemy, you’re a bad Bushwhacker. A good Bushwhacker is putting his turret in an easily missed spot and supporting it with his own gun fire, then moving it. If you’re playing smart, you’re dropping your turret, some seconds will pass, you’ll die in a firefight (negating the pick up debuff anyway) or your turret will die and you’ll get a kill (negating the pick up debuff anyway) or you’ll kill the enemy and they won’t see the turret (no need to move it yet) or you’ll get a kill and they will see it (time to move it). In any of these cases, your cooldown will be active for 10, 15, or 20 seconds, and by the time you pick it up to move it, you’ll be given an extra 1 - 4 seconds. Since it takes time to physically run somewhere else on the map, the cooldown will be gone before you have a chance to place it down anyway.

They basically punished bad Bushwhackers. Good ones won’t even feel the cooldown since they’re being mobile and actually moving across the map.

(Equanimity) #19

It is % of total cooldown reimbursed, not % of remaining cooldown reimbursed… Dropping a turret then near-instantly picking it back up does not correlate to bad placement. I’ve used it before to block shotgun shots, sniper shots, doorways. Dropping it as an extra bit of fire support and getting a pick in a 1v1 you otherwise would have lost and then reclaiming it to repair it. All good usage with a very quick pick up. It was a big nerf and very unnecessary as bushwhacker was not and is still definitely not ‘OP’. Even if you don’t see the turret, if you’re killed by it and you have any sense of situational awareness you know where it is. Even if someone remotely near you is killed by it, the same applies. It needs to be moved after scoring a kill BEFORE someone it killed, or even just damaged, (or someone who witnessed this) comes and kills it. 10 seconds is about half of a spawn wave. 4 seconds is enough time to practically ace a team. These may seem like inconsequential amounts of time to you personally but they are far from it in a very fast paced shooter like Dirty Bomb.

(Szakalot) #20

@MidnightButterSweats how would you play bush on offense. put a turret in your spawn and wait for people to come in?

if you have to enter a choke, plonking the turret down quickly to increase DPS/soak up damage is good practice. your idea of what a good bushwhacker is doesnt indicate you are one.

hiding a turret and waiting for people to die might work on 8v8 servers with new players, but is very easily countered by anyone even remotely good. most of the turret hiding spots are well known, you have to keep the turret mobile to keep enemy on their toes.

use those tricky spots by all means, just dont expect the turret to survive more than 30seconds