Burst rifles Nerf

(Gamersallday147) #1

k. i got 1k hrs in this game but the burst rifles need to be nerf again with fire rate to many players are abusing its headshot damage i like to play kira but i cant have a fun game without a stoker or thunder taking me out with to shots to the head they need to add more spread or something i’m sick of the game be unbalanced if theres some guy using the stark ar an killing me so fast seriously look into it i bet so many low levvl players sayin nerf burst rifles

(Mr-Penguin) #2

If you have 1000 hours in DB, then you should probably be accurate enough to shred said Stokers and Thunders with a BR, especially if they’re brand new to the game.

That aside, I still think BRs need to be nerfed a bit more so that they’re not always the better choice compared to the ARs. The burst fire rate was a good start on SD’s part, but BRs still need some more tweaking.

(Amerika) #3

Some people won’t rest until the m4 is the only gun that can be used seriously again.

(watsyurdeal) #4

Personally I’d rather the other guns be brought up to BR and M4 level, like the Grandeur and Dreiss for example. The accuracy could be buffed a little to better reward tap firing instead of spamming the hell out of the left click.

SMGs are fine, maybe a little more variety would be nice. Like the SMG 9 getting damage increased by 1, and a SLIGHTLY slower rate of fire. Just my opinion.

(JJMAJR) #5

Some people want to play with the Dreiss, K121, Timik, and the MK46.

But then they get a negative KDR.

But jokes aside, the burst rifles are pretty much a sniper rifle for Fire Supports. They need their DPS nerfed, not so much that it’s worse than an M4, but at least enough to not destroy the above weapons.

Meanwhile, the above weapons need to be buffed, especially the MK46.

(Amerika) #6

If you think Burst Rifles have any of the range of a sniper rifle I want video proof that you’re taking off heads from across the map with all three shots. They have more range because there is also recoil to consider and hitting all three shots during a burst window goes down quite a bit at longer ranges even with ADS up. Which is why I tend to aim for knees pretty often at longer ranges despite me being pretty good at recoil control.

So lets see video of you sniping people @JJMAJR

(JJMAJR) #7

When I said that burst rifles are pretty much a sniper rifle for fire supports, I didn’t mean it literally, you know.

It’s just that their burst damage is easily comparable to a sniper rifle, at least on a body shot.

(watsyurdeal) #8

[quote=“Amerika;199113”]If you think Burst Rifles have any of the range of a sniper rifle I want video proof that you’re taking off heads from across the map with all three shots. They have more range because there is also recoil to consider and hitting all three shots during a burst window goes down quite a bit at longer ranges even with ADS up. Which is why I tend to aim for knees pretty often at longer ranges despite me being pretty good at recoil control.

So lets see video of you sniping people @JJMAJR [/quote]

I have to agree, when I think Sniper, I think one shot, one kill, one burst to the head is not enough to kill most mercs, especially at longer distances.

(hoyes) #9

The bursts imo just need their reload speed nerfed again. A simple change that would make people think twice about spamming their shots as if they miss without hitting they are hit with a 2.4 second reload on both rifles.

(Tanker_Ray) #10

@derpypenguinz19 Stark.

@Amerika I actually did that quite many times.

108 dmg given to Vas with Stark, but he runs away with 2HP left.

I mean, he didn’t really literally meant it is 500m Sniper range.

Of course I also don’t agree with M4 master race occurring again, but I guess it won’t be the same nowadays since M4’s 26m range is considered quite short. The damage fall-off of M4 is quite huge.

The reason why I’m sure about why M4 won’t rule DB again is, All SMG’s range was standardized to 18m except Blish’s 19m, and Timik has decent 29m range which is much better shooting far ranges even it has worse recoil.(Well, of course with mumble crosshair.)

Just like @JJMAJR said, even with the RoF nerf, Stark and BR is still one of the best guns in this game that can chew up any other mercs/guns at ANY range.

Shooting/damaging Vassili from far, shutting down female mercs at close range.

Well good thing their reload speed was significantly nerfed to Dreiss level(2.2sec) so BR Fragger won’t be that much handy like before.

But still, those two guns are also the main reason why 100HP and 110HP’s gap is so huge.(Not only reason, but one of the reasons.)

Facing them with Phoenix is such a pain in the ass. May be able to avoid whole-three headshots, and it is true what @Watsyurdeal said, but that doesn’t mean burst rifles aren’t able to burst you two times to death, since the delay between the burst is still way too short.

When shooting female mercs? Worse than that.

So may be leave the ranges, but I still insist that their dmg has to be nerfed.(Well, along with Vassili’s HP though.)

If not, expand delay between the bursts, just like the time when they were reworked at CW update.

That bug fix SD did(133ms -> 100ms), made those two as insane guns, because only penalty it had was that slow delay.

(Amerika) #11

@THUNDA If you have footage of you shutting down Vas constantly with triple headshots from clear across a map with a Stark or BR please post it.

And if you say something is a sniper rifle constantly then that’s what you’re claiming it is. There is no excuse for it or, “of course they didn’t mean that”. Please use facts and not falsehoods to prove the value of your argument for or against something. Trying to make a weapon sound more powerful than it is at ranges that it is quite clearly not effective and get others to constantly say the same thing (I hear it said a lot) is the exact opposite of forming a good argument.

I know you have seen me use the burst rifles. Do you think I am being inaccurate in my assessment of their range capabilities? Or do you think, maybe, some people are going a bit out of their way to exaggerate what is actually true in order to get what they want?

I’m OK with discussing changes. I am not OK with using false information and exaggeration to try and strengthen an argument.

(Herr_Hanz) #12

im a sniper main, with 200 hours on vassili. i would rather have the felix/moa than a burst rifle. not to mention that i am capable of killing a sniper with the k121 or the MK46. any gun can kill a sniper. burst rifles are just better at doing it, thats all. (not counting sniper rifles)

(Amerika) #13

If I come into the last OBJ on Chapel attack on the right side, and there is a sniper on the wall and I don’t have a sniper to counter, I want a burst rifle. If I come in the left side and am behind the truck or near the ammo dump I want an m4 or even a k121.

Hitting even two of the three shots from a burst is pretty rare at that range and requires the sniper to be way out of position and standing way too far to their right. That’s what I have an issue with in these discussions. People say things that don’t make sense given how the game actually plays and the situations you are in. The fact that you can be 20 meters from an Aimee and kill her in a burst isn’t the same thing as burst rifles being a sniper rifle.

(Tanker_Ray) #14

@Herr_Hanz Yes, but it’s not just better. BEST.

@Amerika ;;; I wasn’t against you or arguing something.

I never said it was good at ‘triple headshotting someone from really far range.’ or its damaging ability is sniper rifle constant or anything.

But just saying it is still omni-purpose weapon in this game, and ‘best for shooting far distance’ is single part of it.

I do had many experience of triple headshots, just like you showed me in the vids.

It’s true I almost did none of super far triple headshot because of tiny hitbox and recoil itself.

But want I wanted to emphasize was eventhough some shots will miss, burst rifles still have plenty of mag size and decent burst RPM. Just like we never always triple-headshot someone at close/medium distance, but we can cover it with several burst or one or two headshot done among one burst.

I mean, it is still the most hard hitting gun from far that fires really fast…

Just like you said you prefer it the most, if not counter sniping.

(watsyurdeal) #15

@THUNDA

Just because someone prefers it the most doesn’t imply it’s unbalanced, you also gotta consider the way Sniper Rifles are balanced, the kits they are used with, the health and speed of the heroes, if we had something akin to Blacklight or Call of Duty, where we can pick and choose our loadouts then maybe, but saying they’re preferred doesn’t have to do with the burst rifles so much as it does the mercs you use em with, and how effective they are overall.

We’re talking about Fragger, Thunder, Skyhammer, Kira, Arty, and Stoker, and about 3 of those are mercs you commonly see a lot in higher level play.

Not only that, but someone may prefer the burst rifles, some may prefer the m4 and timik, myself included, my finger is my select fire, I don’t need a gun to do it for me. Just because it’s better on paper doesn’t mean that’s how it really plays out in a game.

(Tanker_Ray) #16

@Watsyurdeal

You are totally right. Just like I use MK.46 for Thunder just because I personally prefer the gun, eventhough I know S41 Stark Thunder is the best for him.

Or may be weaponry’s own experience is also something that’s very important.(I actually saw someone who felt Timik was comfortable than M4. Damn!)

BUT, I still think they are quite overused.

I mean, I really do agree about your part, and surely I don’t want to hurt burst rifle lover’s feelings, but just like I’ve seen so many Japanese DBers(DBN teams before. I had a pug match against them with M62 Fragger.) only using BR-16 Fragger,

I just don’t think that’s the only reason why people love burst rifles.

Your statement is very true when explaining why MK.46 Thunder’s population is the highest,(Because people selecting their main weapon isn’t always the gun’s performance. Can be gun’s shape, gun sound, etc.) but burst rifle’s super high pick rate… I’m sure this includes more than that.

To be honest, and straightforward, gun’s OPness. Everyone knows It IS actually playing out best in the game.

They aren’t just staying in Crotzni, or M4’s ‘Very good but not OP, so super useful’ level.

Think about all those Arty players only using B81 before 2nd gen came out, drastic increas of BR hammers, Stark Stokers, BR-16 expanding Fragger’s potential to godlike level and burst rifle saving Thunder’s poor state by its own super good performance.

Everyone knows its so good if they know how to use it, and I’ve seen so many M92 Skyhammers moved to B53 BR hammer. Even level 3 with BR is hella scary.

I never want them to be trash, never used, or forgotten level. Of course not!

Just like Crotzni and KeK-10 got balanced nowadays, I just want exact same proper level of balancing to them.

(hoyes) #17

@THUNDA the way that the burst rifles could become balanced is by making them hard to use, requiring you not missing in order to make them usable. Currently, they are extremely spammy, and do not detriment the player a lot if they miss, due to the sheer damage that one of the shots of the 3 the burst does. This power could be justified by giving it an increase burst delay along with another reload speed increase. They would have the same power against mercs <or=100hp, if you can hit your shots, and if you don’t you will be hit with a longish burst delay (perhaps increase both delays by 50ms?). If you spam your shotsand miss a lot, then you are also hit with a 2.4 seconds reload speed. They would just as powerful as they are now for high level players who always hit their shots, but will have goofy handling to make them more difficult to use.

(watsyurdeal) #18

They are less spammy than they used to be, the delay between bursts is actually longer.

It just FEELS like they kill faster because they buffed the damage and RoF slightly, in turn, the damage output is the same or similar, but now the TTK is higher assuming decent aim.

I’m not sure how much better it could be balance wise.

I’d have the take the time to look at the raw numbers again.

(Tanker_Ray) #19

They were actually very high risk high return guns when they were actually reworked.(Right after CW update.) Everything went wrong when SD shortened that burst delay, telling us it was ‘bug fix’.

•Added forgiveness window to Burst-Fire rifles, allowing players to press fire up to 133ms early and still fire the next burst at the correct time
◦This will make the Burst-Fire rifles feel a lot more consistent, and make attaining maximum fire rate considerably easier

http://dirtybomb.nexon.net/news/4901/fine-tuning-update-november-2015

Fine-Tuning after CW update.

Though it won’t change the fact Phoenix and female mercs are the biggest victim of burst rifle’s dmg, I just hope any delay expansion(as much as we can feel) would balance the guns well.

(Amerika) #20

[quote=“THUNDA;199398”]@Herr_Hanz Yes, but it’s not just better. BEST.

@Amerika ;;; I wasn’t against you or arguing something.

I never said it was good at ‘triple headshotting someone from really far range.’ or its damaging ability is sniper rifle constant or anything.

But just saying it is still omni-purpose weapon in this game, and ‘best for shooting far distance’ is single part of it.

I do had many experience of triple headshots, just like you showed me in the vids.

It’s true I almost did none of super far triple headshot because of tiny hitbox and recoil itself.

But want I wanted to emphasize was eventhough some shots will miss, burst rifles still have plenty of mag size and decent burst RPM. Just like we never always triple-headshot someone at close/medium distance, but we can cover it with several burst or one or two headshot done among one burst.

I mean, it is still the most hard hitting gun from far that fires really fast…

Just like you said you prefer it the most, if not counter sniping.[/quote]

I said I prefer the M4 at longer ranges to harass a sniper and not the bursts. My main issue is that some people keep calling them sniper rifles and keep mentioning that they have a slightly longer range than the M4 without also understand the mechanical reason WHY they would have a longer range than the M4 other than it being an arbitrary value. You aren’t going to hit all three shots let alone all three as headshots at long ranges compared to ADS m4 shots if you have good aim/control. Advertising it constantly as a “sniper rifle” as I constantly read across multiple mediums, typically by players who can’t shoot straight to save their life, is dishonest and a bad method of debating balance. It’s shady and I’m now calling people out for it because it has no place in proper balance talks.

If you want to discuss balance you better be accurate in your representation and say exactly what you mean and not just casually throw out, “oh it’s as good as a sniper rifle” when it quite clearly is not. And having consistent unedited proof that shows off your opinion makes the case even better.