Bullet Damage

(ImageOmega) #1

It seems pretty clear to me that the damage in the game needs to be upped. I witnessed multiple instances where a medic was able to heal through the damage being done to him forcing the opposing player to reload, thus getting killed due to reload time.

I know there was a concern addressed in the Echo reveal video about amount of bullets in the clip compared to amount of kills had. I don’t think the problem here is amount of bullets, but how much damage bullets are doing.

It just does not feel like the weapons are lethal enough. I know some people are worried that if the damage is higher they will be killed quicker, but in reality you would be killing faster. ALSO, people would not be so quick to rush you (or should think twice) because you would be able to kill them faster. Makes you actually worry about your position, health, and tactics when attacking.

Currently, it takes eight body shots to kill someone (where 7 bodyshots does 98 damage). If you are hitting only headshots you will need to hit them in the head at least four times. That is 14 damage per bodyshot and 28 damage per headshot.

I think the number of headshots to kill should be at MOST three shots to head and number of bodyshots required to kill be reduced to five or six. In other words we are looking at ~18-20 damage per body shot and ~34 damage per headshot.

(murka) #2

Are you 100% certain that simply increasing DPS (damage per second) via other means isn’t better? The last patch reduced bullet damage to a perfect spot. Now it’s more likely to escape a firefight with some 4hp left.

(ImageOmega) #3

What does that mean? You like blasting a full clip at an enemy and having them escape with 4 health?

(acutepuppy) #4

I think the damage may be okay. A touch higher with lower ROF would be fine with me…

Really though I just wish the majority of gunplay wasn’t so in your face.

Edit: 4 headshots is high…

(nailzor) #5

Or shooting full-auto into someone while they can med pack up faster than you can kill them.

I think damage should be increased.

(Humate) #6

bloom and rof imo

(Evil-Doer) #7

Don’t mind bloom being worked with, but feel like ROF should be one of the constants.

(Kendle) #8

The weapons in this game are simply not lethal enough.

I understand the ET / ET:QW players here are obsessed with this idea that the longer a fire-fight takes the more “skill” the winner has displayed, but tracking ability is not the only skill, fast reaction time and twitch aiming abilities are also highly regarded in most other shooters. When this game goes live I intend promoting it to my old ET friends, who I think will like it, but I’m also a member of an old DOD (Day of Defeat) clan and there’s no way I’d even mention this game to them, they’d laugh at me if I told them you have to shoot someone 3 times in the head to kill them.

The thing is it’s not a black or white choice, low damage tracking game OR high damage camp-fest. DB is currently at the extreme silly end of the low DPS scale, it could be moved quite a distance in the other direction before it gets anywhere near “he who shoots first wins”.

Personally I’d increase damage and ROF, but tbh I don’t care which is used, just make the guns more lethal. The person who can put their crosshair on the other guy and keep it there will still win.

(Evil-Doer) #9

[QUOTE=Kendle;426756]The weapons in this game are simply not lethal enough.

I understand the ET / ET:QW players here are obsessed with this idea that the longer a fire-fight takes the more “skill” the winner has displayed, but tracking ability is not the only skill, fast reaction time and twitch aiming abilities are also highly regarded in most other shooters. When this game goes live I intend promoting it to my old ET friends, who I think will like it, but I’m also a member of an old DOD (Day of Defeat) clan and there’s no way I’d even mention this game to them, they’d laugh at me if I told them you have to shoot someone 3 times in the head to kill them.

The thing is it’s not a black or white choice, low damage tracking game OR high damage camp-fest. DB is currently at the extreme silly end of the low DPS scale, it could be moved quite a distance in the other direction before it gets anywhere near “he who shoots first wins”.

Personally I’d increase damage and ROF, but tbh I don’t care which is used, just make the guns more lethal. The person who can put their crosshair on the other guy and keep it there will still win.[/QUOTE]

Like your post Kendle :slight_smile: +1

(Valdez) #10

Great post Kendle, agreed with everything you said.

(ImageOmega) #11

[QUOTE=Kendle;426756]The weapons in this game are simply not lethal enough.

I understand the ET / ET:QW players here are obsessed with this idea that the longer a fire-fight takes the more “skill” the winner has displayed, but tracking ability is not the only skill, fast reaction time and twitch aiming abilities are also highly regarded in most other shooters.[/QUOTE]

Awesome, Kendle. This reminds me of why QuakeLive is considered to have a very high skill ceiling. Getting a kill or doing damage in QuakeLive is easy, but to be the most effective and efficient (such as with kill to death ratio) you had to have great aim (especially tracking with lg), solid movement, and smart tactics.

(Stoffifee) #12

Rather than raising the damage/bullet i would prefer the spread being reduced, tbh.

This would lead to more damage as well.

Cheers. :slight_smile:

(xarQi) #13

lol some guys say here putting a full clip on an enemy (think u should aim better then)? I think it may not be too easy to make a skillbased game if you make it even easier to kill a starter will have the same skill like some guy who plays it for years… But i would say just 3 headshots is enough! also the game is already pretty fast gameplay if you make it even more easier to kill, this game will be a fragfest rushing and killing every enemy u see in 2 secs?

(murka) #14

I’d honestly like to hear more why it should be bullet damage that gets increased. From the sound of it you are more worried about the high TTK (Time-to-Kill) which is mostly affected by DPS.

Your suggestion of increasing bullet damage has a lot of pitfalls and i just hope you consider an alternative like lower spread or maybe even higher bullet damage plus lower ROF but increasing the overall DPS.

As both a W:ET and ETQW player i want a bit of both actually. W:ET had insanely low spread so it was much more common to kill 3-4 people with one clip(30 bullets) and it also had 3hs per kill. I have to disagree that W:ET didn’t reward fast reflexes in this regard.

ETQW however had much higher spread so twitch aiming and landing 3hs with the first bullets was next to impossible. It is still a tough decision, but I think it was better this way so that vehicles wouldn’t go underused. If more than 3 players had to be killed, stick to heavier weaponry or vehicles.

TL;DR: Yes, increase average DPS(with spread consideration), but not bullet damage alone.

(acutepuppy) #15

More drastic differences between guns may help in the mix that makes the solution. I always loved the Thompson and MP40 differences in RtCW (not ET), and the Strogg and GDF variants.

(.N.E.R.D.) #16

Whatever the outcome of this is, it is NOT an argument to change weapon balance cause the medic can heal himself so fast. That is clearly a medic issue that has to be changed.

(Maca) #17

Whatever is done, I would personally prefer that the first thing to be changed is to have the spread/bloom much lower.
After that is done we could see where the damage/ROF should be.

But the headshot damage should definitely be higher.

(Runeforce) #18

I’m glad to hear that the headshot damage has been changed (it was about time! :slight_smile: ) Headshots has really felt overpowered up to the last patch.

(Anti) #19

This!

When evaluating the guns you should really be doing it based on the non-Medic classes right now, the Medic’s self healing is a separate issue and we are looking at it.

(Evil-Doer) #20

[QUOTE=Maca;426770]Whatever is done, I would personally prefer that the first thing to be changed is to have the spread/bloom much lower.
After that is done we could see where the damage/ROF should be.

But the headshot damage should definitely be higher.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, thing is when spread/bloom was reduced, so was the damage at the same time, so it pretty much canceled the change out.

[QUOTE=Anti;426774]This!

When evaluating the guns you should really be doing it based on the non-Medic classes right now, the Medic’s self healing is a separate issue and we are looking at it.[/QUOTE]

But, the med packs are giving the right amount of health per pack. The guns just aren’t doing enough damage period. In all the old games, you could still out shoot the packs that were given to any players, like if a Field ops was sitting on a pile of packs, you could still out gun the player on the packs, in this situation the guns are so weak, you could shoot a player on 4-8 packs piled around him an your bullets legit don’t even do anything. The packs just cancel the shooting out. But at the same time the packs are doing what they are suppose to.