Bullet Damage

(Patriotqube) #21

I dont know how its really working in DB yet but I had a quick brainstorm and just wrote down what passed through up there in the Windtunnel :slight_smile:
thats what i would like to try tbh, i know its not complete and probatly wrong in so many ways, but could be fun testing it imo :slight_smile:

All Classes, HP 120
Medic Health regenerates with 2 HP/s = 1 minute to completely regenerate which is like a zillion years in a Fast FPS Game
No other Class Regenerates health

Weapons
Main Weapon Headshots 40 HP Damage = 3 shot/kill
Secondary Weapon Headshots 30 HP Damage = 4 shoot/kill
Body shots doing 20 HP Damage = 6 shoot/kill
Sniperrifle Headshots Scoped long distance Headshot 100 HP Damage
Sniperrifle Headshots Scoped Short distance Headshot 120 HP Damage
Sniperrifle Headshots Scoped long distance Bodyshot 50 HP Damage
Sniperrifle Headshots Scoped Short distance Bodyshot 60 HP Damage
Unscoped same as Main Weapon
Soldier Heavy Weapon, Same as Maingun but with increased firing rate

Other
C4 should be possible to plant everywhere, Damage 300 HP in a certain small Radius then 100 HP in a larger radius
Arty Damage 550 HP in a certain Radius then 100 HP in a larger radius
Nades Damage 110 HP in a certain small Radius then 60 HP in a larger radius
Turrets

  • headshots Damage 30 HP
  • Bodyshots Damage 15 HP
  • Fast firingrate
  • 120 HP Damage to destroy it, should have a healthbar over it so engy can repair when needed, before its completely destroyed, should take longer to deploy tbh
    EV
  • 1100 HP Damage to destroy it = 2 Arty or 10 nades or combination
    Knife
  • stab from behind Damage 120 HP = assasinkill
  • stab from side Damage 60 HP = stiil advantages of surprise
  • stab from front Damage 30 HP = plain annoying to see ppl come towards you with knife, they deserve to die

Flamer?
Panzer?

Accessories:
Medics shouldnt be allowed to heal themselves, only to heal other teammates including other medics
No medpacks dropped when they die

as we cant grab opponents weapons, there should be a drop with a choosen amount of bullets when people dies, like 5-10 bullets?

(Valdez) #22

Echo is showing 1 clip per kill, is this supposed to be a good thing? Personally I would like to see 3 kills per clip. Also that 1 kill per clip was factoring in the soldier hmg that has upwards of 70 bullets in the clip. Go to 1:51 to see the chart break down by weapon http://dirtybombers.com/game-info/new-dirty-bomb-video-closed-alpha-begins/. 1 kill per clip ppl really want that?? Technically when talking about dmg I am pretty sure we are referring to medic/fops/neer’s weapon, by looking at that chart with those weapons its actually 1.5 clips for 1 kill.

(Kendle) #23

Reduce spread, increase head-shot damage = if you can aim you can take down opponents quickly, if you can’t you can’t. The player who shoots first doesn’t win if the other guy has better aim. If you can acquire a target quickly, and keep your crosshair on his head, you should be able to drop someone a lot quicker than you can at the moment. If you can’t do both you don’t indirectly benefit from guns that are just more lethal overall.

RTCW’s TTK was half that of DB, yet it invented the objective game mode and no-one back then complained about the guns doing too much damage. I really wish SD had used RTCW as a baseline (maybe they did in the pre-alpha?).

(.N.E.R.D.) #24

When you bring up Echo stats you should consider that it is a really small samplesize consisting of at least 90% casual players that are no hardcore aimers.

(Maca) #25

The movement was slower than what it is now, and the spread was higher also, and RTCW is much faster still than what we got currently. So even if the damage and ROF had been same as in RTCW (they weren’t, but they were closer to it), the game would’ve been completely different. The shooting in RTCW works because of the very high movement speed in all directions, as the movement is now we can’t go too short TTK, because then it’ll go back to campfest.
So yes, I would think the best thing currently would be to just reduce spread/bloom and increase headshot damage.

(Runeforce) #26

[QUOTE=Kendle;426785]Reduce spread, increase head-shot damage = if you can aim you can take down opponents quickly, if you can’t you can’t. The player who shoots first doesn’t win if the other guy has better aim. If you can acquire a target quickly, and keep your crosshair on his head, you should be able to drop someone a lot quicker than you can at the moment. If you can’t do both you don’t indirectly benefit from guns that are just more lethal overall.

RTCW’s TTK was half that of DB, yet it invented the objective game mode and no-one back then complained about the guns doing too much damage. I really wish SD had used RTCW as a baseline (maybe they did in the pre-alpha?).[/QUOTE]

I don’t get why you would want to take down targets quicker.

You already get the upper hand by posessing the ability to aim precisely and quickly. But with more damage, you would have to react less in your adaptive aim (aquiring and keeping the crosshair alligned at the head) to your opponents moves, as he would not have time to do them, and the overall aim skill-ceiling becomes lower, and paradoxally aiming becomes a much more dominant factor (at the expense of movement and duels.) More damage also means less moving, which means less moving skill and spatial/map awereness is required. How it is now all raises the skills involved in winning a fight, as a wider combination of skills are required to peform well. Precise and fast aim alone is not enough (but it helps!)
Splash Damage did not make RTCW. Id and Nerve did. I guess you could call SD’s FPS (damage model) mechanics the “european variation,” which differ from the american traditions (and is fairly consistent about it.)

(maxxxxlol) #27

The two best games in this series, even if one wasn’t made by SD easily had more skill involved in the shooting, even with a lower ttk.

(Kendle) #28

I think there are 2 issues here.

  1. You’re putting a huge emphasis on the ability to track a moving target, which is all well and good but it’s not the only skill, and not the only definition of skill. Twitch aim and fast reaction times are not rewarded as much as they could be because you have more time to react to getting shot, and it’s the number of hits you can deliver over time, rather than the accuracy of the first few, that matter most.

  2. Most people here are ET and ET:QW players (not surprisingly), and probably share the opinion that tracking ability trumps everything else, but that’s not the case in the wider gaming community. If SD want this game to appeal to a wider audience then having gun mechanics at the extreme low end of the damage scale is not going to achieve that.

There’s no reason damage / spread can’t be tweaked towards a lower TTK, bringing reactions and twitch aim more into play, without losing the rewards of being able to track a moving target. Doing so might place less emphasis on the skill you revere, but that’s not the same as lowering the skill ceiling overall, and what’s more it would broaden the appeal of the game, IMHO.

(Humate) #29

I cant speak for other ex et / etqw players, but I’m not against lower/faster ttk.
Would like to see more kills per clip, more sprees from players that actually earn them.

What I would avoid however is increasing the dmg while retaining the spray and pray feel of the weapons.

(Dthy) #30

[QUOTE=Humate;426818]I cant speak for other ex et / etqw players, but I’m not against lower/faster ttk.
Would like to see more kills per clip, more sprees from players that actually earn them.

What I would avoid however is increasing the dmg while retaining the spray and pray feel of the weapons.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much agree, in QW generally you’d use between a half and full clip to kill (20-40) so with a little practice you could get 2 (or more) kills per clip. From when I last played DB I remember having to spray a whole clip just to get one kill (1 kill per clip, like echo shows).

(Apples) #31

Decrease RoF (this way the blooming is also slower) and increase a tad bullet damage (especially headshots’)

This should at least be tested, if not kept.

(BomBaKlaK) #32

in wolfET we need 2 headshots in ETQW we need 3 and in DB we need 4 :stuck_out_tongue:
Maybe 3 is the best value to me, let’s test

(murka) #33

You sure? Haven’t played it properly for 4yrs but, as i remember, it was 3hs for kill.

(Patriotqube) #34

yes ding ding ding

(Kendle) #35

In ET the 1st bullet knocks your helmet off, which absorbs some of the damage (10HP iirc), meaning it takes 3 HS in ET although it only took 2 in RTCW with the same damage per bullet. I remember that being an example of how ET was perceived as a dumbed down version of RTCW when it was released. Funny how things change. :slight_smile:

(ImageOmega) #36

I wanted to post some damage charts I found for RtCW, W:ET, QW:ET, and Brink. I see a lot of people reminiscing on these games, so here are the numbers to back it all up. Unfortunately, I can’t speak on QW:ET or Brink much because I barely touched those games. RtCW and W:ET damage numbers were actually pretty close with what I was able to find. Also, below, you’ll find a link to a Frag Video to showcase the damage and killing ability in action.

Being able to aim and kill is not the problem. Feeling as if you’re not quite doing real damage (or being rewarded for your aim) is the problem. Also, the other issue isn’t the medic’s self-heal. That circumstance just really made me realize how weak the guns are.

First, here is a damage chart for RtCW: http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/4newbies/RTCWFAQ.htm#weapondamage

[table=“width: 500, class: grid, align: left”]

[B]Weapon[/B]
[B]BodyShot[/B]
[B]Headshot[/B]


Thompson
18
50


MP 40
14
50


Sten
14
50


Luger
18
50


Colt .45
18
50


Mauser
80
Insta Kill


Venom Cannon
20
20


Panzerfaust
n/a
n/a


Flamethrower
n/a
n/a


Knife
10-12
101 to back "sweet spot"

[/table]

The numbers for W:ET were harder to find and I only found a cached version of a site. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.enemy-territory.net/weapons.html

The biggest difference was W:ET headshots with a helmet on were 40 damage and 50 without a helmet. Also, the MP 40’s body shot damage was raised to equal that of the Thompson (18 per bodyshot).

Especially looking at the numbers for the Thompson/MP40 in W:ET, you see that they are closer to what I proposed in the original post.

Here are charts for Brink and QW:ET, but I can barely touch on these:
Brink: http://denkirson.xanga.com/738334226/brink/
Brink: http://brink.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons
QW: http://etqw.geezergaming.com/newbies/weapons_detailed.php

Finally, a video showcasing great moments from recent competition:

(slaG) #37

2-3 bullets for a headshot kill feels right

(zeroooo) #38

its totally wrong to increase the weapon dmg

the thing with the healing of the medic is a medic problem like already said before…

the only thing that i would decrease is the spread, just a bit

if you increase the dmg of the bullets, we could stop this right here and start playing cod or anyother noob / casual game…

then it would be same as in bf3 or cod… the guy who shoots earlier kills the other one

–> no aim --> no skill --> lame game --> not that what i want to see in a SD game

(murka) #39

Can we just agree to decrease spread first and see what needs changing next. Right now spread is so huge that i get a good laugh when something randomly deals 4hs in a row while the crosshair is barely on the enemy. Upping the damage is just going to make this randomness more random. Also lowering spread even if only temporary will help judging antilag. Right now i can’t even remotely tell whether i didn’t hit because of bad tracking, antilag or spread.

(spookify) #40

I have always been a fan of 3 HS’s but the current 4 might be acceptable maybe if there was a little less spread (Atleast while Strafing)? With that said it still does feel like I’m unloading 35 bullets while aiming at a persons head and they just aren’t dieing… That coupled with the fact that this is a team based game and where there is one there will be another right behind; you are basically dead from that second guy… ET and RTCW you could camp a corner and easily take out 3 people in one clip. I can not do that in DM :frowning: