BRINK suggestions forum

(DarkangelUK) #601

The debate about TK-revive has already been raged during the ETQW closed beta, obviously it was something that SD felt was part of the game so embraced it. It has been an exploit, or design flaw if you will since RtCW… again, embracing it doesn’t change my view or its original intention all those years ago.

(shirosae) #602

Do you feel the same way about trick jumping? Why (,or why not)?

(Rahdo) #603

Yes, and in fact, you do. There’s a base amount of XP you get from any kill, and it’s pretty low. But that gets increased based on how smart those kills are: kills out in the middle of no where, not so useful. Kills while defending a bomb thats been planted, pay very well.

So if you want to farm, do the right thing… the thing that helps your team win the match, and you’ll be better rewarded.

[QUOTE=shirosae;205010]Mines planted: Should I be able to get repeated XP by sitti
ng in a corner of the map planting my three mines, getting just as much XP when my fourth mine goes down, removing my first? Or should I get XP only if I have less than three mines down when I plant a new one?
[/quote]
You get no XP for planting mines. Getting kills from those mines does pay, and the more valuable the kill (i.e. the closer to the core objective), the more they pay.

[QUOTE=shirosae;205010]Tank running: The MCP is pretty much broken anyway, so I dunno. I suppose this would be fine if it worked more like the ET tank. I can’t help thinking that really you should get more XP for repairing the MCP if it actually moves between repairs. Or perhaps you get your XP as a lump sum at the end when the thing is deployed.
[/quote]
Tell me more about this tank running. I’m intrigued, and want to make sure whatever is messed up about it, isn’t replicated in Brink :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=shirosae;205010]
That’s true. All those unforeseen awesome things like indoors sniping (lol) would have a reward based on an outdated vision of what actually works on the map. If your only metric for determining how well your play is is XP, you’d be discouraged from trying anything else. It’s kinda like a satnav for gaming, except instead of people following it into lakes they follow it into the town of HUGE SCRUBSTON.[/QUOTE]
I look at it as we’re encouraging players constnatly to find the best ways they can to help win, which is why we only reward activities that do one of two things: help win the match, or help teammates have more fun (which is equally important to me).

(Rahdo) #604

Actually, I’m hoping to find ways to reward the proper use of even something like a smoke grenade, though it is tough. I’m wanting to try a thing where we check for line of sight between enemies and teammates, and in cases where the smoke grenade has actually blocked said LOS, reward teh thrower a little. Not sure if that will work, but worth a try.

Well, you do if that in part led to the overall success of your team and you won the match (since your team winning of course nets you an XP bonus as well)

(Rahdo) #605

[QUOTE=shirosae;205013]Hang on, I just had an idea. What if the XP system awards XP based on the interactions of players, so that the goal is the important thing, not how you choose to accomplish that goal?
[/QUOTE]
Yup, that’s the intent. I don’t know if we’ll be able to get as elaborate as you suggest, but philosophically, that’s exactly how I’m trying to design the system, right down to recognizing enemy MVPs and giving special missions out to keep them in check.

(Rahdo) #606

[QUOTE=tokamak;205019]The associations shouldn’t be based on the player’s actions but on whatever mission they are on (in the wheel).

So if a defender has selected ‘defend the barricade’ as his mission, then he’ll get more xp from shooting the players that have ‘destroy the barricade’ as their mission and players connected to this, a medic that has the mission to revive the player with the destroy mission should be worth more as well.[/QUOTE]
Yup. For instance, there’s an objective that can appear on your wheel called “escort (teammate) to the (objective)”, which only comes up if one of your teammates who are capable of completely the core objective use their wheel to communicate to their team that they’re going for it. As soon as they do that, they create a new mission for their teamamtes to protect him, and in some cases, they create new missions on the wheel of enemy players as well…

(Rahdo) #607

[QUOTE=H0RSE;205028]I don’t think if I keep repairing the vehicle, and the enemy keeps disabling it, I shouldn’t get xp because it didn’t move. Maybe get reduced xp, but not zero xp. I like the lump sum idea. Maybe if you stuck with the vehicle, depending on how long (whole map, majority, little bit) you would get like a bonus ‘lump sum’ when the objective is complete.

In the videos, escorting the vehicle was an objective itself. As long as you are near it, you are getting xp. You could also turn FF off on vehicles, so engys won’t blow them up with mines/grenades, just so they can keep repairing it.

These are just suggestions, please keep flamethrowers on low.[/QUOTE]
Oh, is the exploit that Shiro mentioned related to repairing escort vehicles which engineers first manually trying to damage, so they can then repair them? Yeah, that’d dumb, and easily fixed by having an XP penalty for shooting the thing they weren’t supposed to shoot in the first place :slight_smile:

(Floris) #608

Hmm, if you look at a map such a Goldrush, spawnkilling is quite a viable option to keep the way clean for your document carrier. Does the objective site move along with the objective runner?

(Rahdo) #609

Yup. In the case of doc carrying and escort vehicles, the thing itself defines the front line.

(Floris) #610

Cool. That should make people want to stick with the objective runner :). Do you guys have any new (compared to ET:QW) systems in place to make people aware that there is a guy “putting his ass on the line” to do an objective run? In ET:QW there were so many moments when I was carrying an objective while my teammates were nowhere to be found, really frustrating!

(DarkangelUK) #611

Tricking for me adds a new dimension to the game, and a new element to master, and something that can wield great rewards once mastered with a lot of practice and devotion. TK-revive is a skill-less bypass for medpacks, as a medic it’s about which team mate needs the packs most, where’s the strategic place to lay them, when’s the best time to use them, give all to one or spread across a few… all of that goes out the window when all you have to do is put a bullet in your team mate then stab him with a needle, instant health boost without even going near the packs. Shooting your team mates a feature? Just doesn’t sit well with me.

Or the team mate that does stick with you, then shoots you near the end so he can complete the objective… that’s just as bad.

(DarkangelUK) #612

Or the team mate that does stick with you, then shoots you near the end so he can complete the objective… that’s just as bad.

(darthmob) #613

[QUOTE=Rahdo;205092]Tell me more about this tank running. I’m intrigued, and want to make sure whatever is messed up about it, isn’t replicated in Brink :)[/QUOTE]In ET the tank / truck had basically two states from a defender’s point of view: damaged and repaired. If the attackers repaired the vehicle you would simply throw all your explosives at it to damage it again. You couldn’t damage it unless it was fully repaired though. That means if you would want to keep the vehicle from moving you have to kill the attackers.

In ETQW it was possible for the defenders to undo the repair progress by shooting at the damaged mcp. In early ETQW versions mcp missions were all fullholds because 2-3 vehicles constantly shooting at the mcp made it impossible to repair it. Patch 1.5 changed it in a way that defenders could only undo the latter half of repair progress which sort of fixed it. Nevertheless if you want to keep the mcp from moving you could either shoot the mcp (boring!) or kill the attackers.

Another difference was that you couldn’t actively drive vehicles in ET. You stood next them and they rolled along their route.

(shirosae) #614

Glad to be of help.

Initially the MCP in ETQW was a problem with scrubs on public servers. The GDF Engineers could just sit behind the MCP, repairing it as it trundled along, soaking up any damage inflicted it by the Strogg. This was a problem for the Strogg because they were too dumb to shoot at the engineers, instead of trying to spam the front of the MCP. It was a problem with the GDF because they needed to repair a certain amount of HP before the MCP would go from disabled to moving, and they were too dumb to shoot at the stuff shooting the MCP and damaging that repair status.

Then it was changed so the MCP provided no barrier to splash damage. If the Strogg spammed the front of the MCP, the engineers behind it would take damage and die. And then the GDF got stuck on it loads, because they were too dumb to shoot at the stuff that was shooting the MCP.

And then it was changed again so the MCP stopped taking damage when it got disabled. This meant that the GDF Engineers could just sit behind the MCP and repair it - because it stopped taking damage as soon as it got disabled, they’d only need one tick of repairing to get it running along again. Essentially the MCP was immune to damage if it had an Engineer behind it. This means that one Engineer can sit inside the driver seat until the Strogg look the other way, pop out, do a tick of repair, and be moving again, because that seat is never destroyed.

How it should have worked (probably) is that the MCP gets disabled when it goes to 0HP, and then stays disabled until it’s repaired to a certain level and starts moving again. That way the GDF can make a push, hold some ground until the Engineers do a repair, and then there’s a period of movement, instead of this continual damage-ignoring silliness.

Very pleased. I’m a huge sucker for ridiculous non-linear systems.

So it’s not about TK revives being intended or an exploit at all, it’s about TK revives being a skill-less bypass. Why would you even talk about TK revives being an unintended exploit if this was your problem with them?

Anyway: TK Revives don’t really make medpacks useless, since you only get 50% HP from a revive, and someone with 50% HP is going to die very quickly against an enemy at 100% unless they’re significantly better than said enemy.

So you can put anyone/everyone on your team to 50% HP, and then your medpacks come in, because you can only put a finite number to 100%.

You could argue that medpacks become useless when the medic gets full-health revive (I’d disagree because they’re useful even then, for spamming down onto a player doing the objective), but given that that only happens near the end of the third map in a campaign I don’t see where the beef is.

(DarkangelUK) #615

Are you being serious? A skill less bypass, rendering the need for medpacks useless and EXPLOITING the fact that you get a health boost… did i need to spell it out for you or must i include the word ‘exploit’ just so you don’t get lost?

Any way, that’s my opinion… i know people don’t mind it so i think we can end the conversation there cos you’re not gonna change my opinion and im not gonna change yours.

(Ragoo) #616

You can tk-revive at the wrong moment though, so it takes some tactical knowledge to do it.
And I don’t think that healing your teammates up to 50% makes medpacks useless.

(shirosae) #617

Erm, yes.

I don’t understand how TK revive renders medpacks useless, since there’s no other way to get your teammates up to full health unless you’ve already played two and a half maps and gotten full health revive.

A medpack gives what, 25 HP? So with 4 medpacks, I can heal one person from 1 HP to full. With TK revive, I can get two people to half health, then medpack them to full.

With 6 medpacks, I can health one person from 1 HP to full, and half heal another. With TK revive, I can half heal three people, and heal them to max with medpacks.

Without medpacks, I can’t fully heal anyone. I lose all that extra HP. If TK revive did a full heal all the time, so it actually surpassed all benefit from medpacks I could see where you’re coming from, but so far all I hear is the word ‘exploit’ over and over, and that’s not really helping me see what the problem is.

I’d appreciate it if you did spell it out for me.

No, it’s really easy to change my opinion. All you have to do is actually explain how TK revive makes medpacks useless, instead of just stating that it does over and over.

(DarkangelUK) #618

[QUOTE=shirosae;205120]
No, it’s really easy to change my opinion. All you have to do is actually explain how TK revive makes medpacks useless, instead of just stating that it does over and over.[/QUOTE]

With 6 medpacks, I can health one person from 1 HP to full, and half heal another. With TK revive, I can half heal three people, and heal them to max with medpacks.

You’re doing a good job for me, no thought needed there… just shoot them, revive and drop packs willynilly rather than having to actually decide tactically who needs the packs more and who will benefit the most. Thanks for that. With the Tk-revive you can bypass the need for thought and tactics all together.

Maybe useless was a strong word, but it drops their importance and your need to think about their usage.

(Nail) #619

tk revive is faster, faster is good

(Rahdo) #620

[QUOTE=shirosae;205110]How it should have worked (probably)
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the skinny, Darth and Shiro. Yeah, hopefully those issues are a thing of the past. The way they’re set up in Brink is that they can’t be repaired by engineers at all until they’ve taken 100% damage, at which point they break down and stop. And then they can’t move or be damaged again until they’ve been 100% repaired by engineers. So it’s all much simplier and cleaner, and they’re aren’t drivable (ala W:ET).