Brink Barrier To Entry Retention Fix/Idea

(DarkangelUK) #41

But his idea was to make ‘new players’ stick around, if there’s still people playing, I’m guessing they are because they want to and don’t need convincing. Where is this influx of new players coming from, and how many do you project there will be? How many of those players will need something like this to keep them there? What percentage of player retention justifies the effort put into something like this?

(Ix LP xI) #42

I remember those days too. The problem with Brink is that it’s a multiplayer-oriented game with barely anyone playing. I’d like the game more if it had more players because I’m tired of the 8v1 or 2 teams and the random guy who joins a game and sits AFK in the spawn, putting my team one bot down, which doesn’t do anything really because the bots are never useful, but at least they are cannon fodders. Usually I quit those, but I’m put in the same match if I search again.

Also, if more people were playing, it would also mean that the shooting mechanics would be better, that the game would be something else than spawn -> run to objective -> die -> spawn, that the game would have been bug-free on release and that it would have had more than 8 maps on release.

Those, I think, are the shortcomings of Brink. I still play the game sometimes despite them though.

(wolfnemesis75) #43

[QUOTE=.Chris.;374925]I thought the topic was about player retention and to fix entry barrier? Not making Brink enjoyable for those who’ve stuck around?
Nice but what did any of that had to do with my question? This thread is about player retention and fixing the entry barrier? Do you even know what this means?[/QUOTE]Re-read the OP. All the answers are there. :slight_smile:

(DarkangelUK) #44

No they’re not, answer the questions and stop avoiding. I’d like an answer to mine as well please.

(.Chris.) #45

Where’s Jeremy Paxman when you need him…

(H0RSE) #46

[QUOTE=Traxxy;374846]Getting used to? …yes…
Learning curve? no.

Let me explain.
Engineer needs to repair a crane.

Getting Used to = Oh I have to go over to this spot and repair this crane thing I cant just cap a flag? …ahhhhhh
Learning Curve = When is the best time to repair it? Do i rush in? Wait for cover? Make sure others (and myself) are buffed?

Medic Needs to revive someone.
Getting Used to = Ahh I have to aim at the guy and throw him a syringe…nps.
Learning Curve = How do I get this syringe to him better ? Maybe I will take out the enemys first next time? etc etc.

Probably not the best examples but you should understand what i mean. :)[/QUOTE]

you’re focusing on the wrong aspects. Here, let me help you.

Let me explain.
Engineer needs to repair a crane.

Getting Used to = Oh I have to go over to this spot and repair this crane thing I cant just cap a flag? …ahhhhhh
Learning Curve = When is the best time to repair it? Do i rush in? Wait for cover? Make sure others (and myself) are buffed? These are skills I need to learn and fine tune.

Medic Needs to revive someone.
Getting Used to = Ahh I have to aim at the guy and throw him a syringe…nps.
Learning Curve = How do I get this syringe to him better ? Maybe I will take out the enemys first next time? etc etc.

^^you already started this one for me, but you forgot to talk about smart supply meter usage - like knowing when to buff/heal, and making sure you have enough energy for when a crucial revive is needed.

These are not things players simply “get used to.” These are skills that good and great players master and are crucial in team based games. I know dozens of people in real life who love shooters, but they only stick with “simple” games, like Deathmatch and CTF. When I ask them why they don’t like team objective games, I always get the same answer - “Because I just want to kill people, and can’t deal with all that extra stuff you have to do.”

In gamesmodes like TDM and CTF, the skills needed to good are aim, reflex/response time, movement and positioning, since killing the other team is the virtually the best thing you can do to contribute - shooting skill in important in all shooters (duh) but team based games (like Brink) add an entire extra layer of skills needed to succeed. You could go an entire game without killing anyone - and still be MVP. There is an entire new set of skills to learn and that is where the learning curve lies and can be frustrating for some.

(Sleepy) #47

I think the new players are people like me, who started playing Brink around the time of AoC DLC. I never experienced the awful bugs during Brink launch and I think Brink is fine for a team Objective FPS, except some minor stuff and 1 or 2 major problems, like all games.

I don’t know about what Brink was like before and I don’t really care. I care about what Brink is going to become and how it’s going to keep current players and possibly attract new Players. This kind of discussion may or may not help developers but it’s nice for them to see what we (the people who are still playing) think now.

To me, the major problem I like them to fix is the matching making or, to be specific, the team balance problem. What wolf suggested may or may nor may not fix this problem, but it’s a good start at the right direction for a small XBL Brink community.

I think wolf started this to discuss how we can better improve the game. He’s not the problem. He’s not responsible for these problem. He merely suggested how we can fix or improve the situation.

A discussion is like this, someone suggest a solution, others point out its flaws and provide better alternatives or improvised solutions, and so on.

This discussion is like this, wolf suggested a solution, others pointed out its flaws and other reasonings they don’t agree on without better or improvised solutions, and demanded wolf to provide answers to problems he’s not responsible for, as if wolf is the cause of the problem. This is a game forum, not politics.

Like I said, I think team balance is a big problem and bots with better AI should be able to fix the problem. If the devs have time to do what wolf suggested, great! If not, at least change the bots’ AI to hard or insane :stuck_out_tongue:

(V1cK_dB) #48

It’s hilarious to me that some kids on here think that Brink is somehow too advanced for people and that’s why they don’t like the game. That’s absurd!

And Wolf…where the hell were you 3 months ago when I and many others were screaming about making this game easier to get into with friends (lobbies) and tweaking things like letting “any rank” play in a game? Oh yeah…you were too busy defending this crap and suggesting idiotic things like, “invite people to your friends list” “join the community game nights” and other crap like “I never have those problems” etc…etc. I remember saying that this would happen. Not enough people playing the game and eventually it would be you and your friends playing and you would be the last one’s left if the game didn’t improve back then. Where the hell were these suggestions back then? You get what you deserve buddy.

I don’t expect SD to fix anything right now especially since I think they are incompetent when it comes to making proper matchmaking work on console. I mean look at what they did to competition mode there for like a month LMAO. They forced the game not to start unless the game had 10 players and they all readied up effectively killing competition mode. They have NO clue what they are doing on console with matchmaking and I don’t think they even think it’s an issue.

Too little too late. Enjoy the game the last couple of months it has left. You should have had higher expectations since day 1 instead of making excuses and recommending horrific work arounds for a badly designed game. Now you are starting to get it? Can’t say I’m surprised.

Edit: 1 more thing…who exactly will be playing all of these modes? I have a hard enough time finding a 8 v 8 objective match and don’t even get me started finding a stopwatch or competition or oldschool match.

(V1cK_dB) #49

[QUOTE=H0RSE;374972]you’re focusing on the wrong aspects. Here, let me help you.

Let me explain.
Engineer needs to repair a crane.

Getting Used to = Oh I have to go over to this spot and repair this crane thing I cant just cap a flag? …ahhhhhh
Learning Curve = When is the best time to repair it? Do i rush in? Wait for cover? Make sure others (and myself) are buffed? These are skills I need to learn and fine tune.

^^you already started this one for me, but you forgot to talk about smart supply meter usage - like knowing when to buff/heal, and making sure you have enough energy for when a crucial revive is needed.

These are things players simply “get used to.” These are skills that good and great players master and are pivitol in team based games. I know dozens of people in real life who love shooters, but they only stick with “simple” games, like Deathmatch and CTF. When I ask them why they don’t like team objective games, I always get the same answer - “Because I just want to kill people, and can’t deal wit all that extra stuff you have to do.”

In gamesmodes like TDM and CTF, the skills needed to good are aim, reflex/response time, movement and positioning, since killing the other team is the virtually the best thing you can do to contribute. In team based games (like Brink) you could go an entire game without killing anyone - and still be MVP. There is an entire new set of skills to learn and that is where the learning curve lies and can be frustrating for some.[/QUOTE]

If you were on my team and we were playing in a competitive match against equally skilled players and you didn’t get a kill…you would be a detriment to the team not very helpful. I don’t care how many times you buffed, handed out ammo or whatever. In a pub against horrific players or against bots as you like to play against then sure. You can be a bad player and still win. Against a good team? Good luck with that.

(wolfnemesis75) #50

[QUOTE=V1cK_dB;374978]Blah blah Blah. Beat dead horse text. [/QUOTE]Man, you bitch and moan more than Brother Chen does. We need to start calling you Uncle Vick or something. Hey, Uncle Vick, this thread is for suggested ways to make it easier for newer players, not on how to turn back the clock. Put the cane down and maybe take a seat in your rocking chair for a spell. I don’t make the game, I am just making a suggestion about how to make it more fun for newer players who aren’t accustomed to this type of FPS game not all-time legends like yerself. And there’re plenty of people to play with on Xbox live. Nowhere in the OP does it mention that there’s no one to play with. There’s just a gap between new players and those who’ve been playing since May. Thanks for your kinds words, Uncle. :slight_smile:

(H0RSE) #51

I’m gonna stop you right there. We aren’t talking about comp matches. We’re talking about players who are new to Brink, and possibly team SD style objective games as a whole. In other words, pub matches with players who aren’t all “guts and glory.”

(DarkangelUK) #52

Haven’t you got some questions that require answering young man, or are you going to avoid them like you do every other time? Brink itself was meant to be the welcoming experience to objective based shooters that no other game had achieved. If indeed it needs to be made ‘more welcome’ than it already is, then I think you should be questioning the mental capacity of the demographic it’s aimed towards rather than the game itself, cos really… it’s already simplified as it is without slicing any more brain cells from it.

If it does indeed need to be dumbed down and simplifed even more to make it accessible to the average console player, then I think this experiment has proven that the consoles just aren’t ready for an adult shooter that requires some rational thought.

(H0RSE) #53

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;374984]Haven’t you got some questions that require answering young man, or are you going to avoid them like you do every other time? Brink itself was meant to be the welcoming experience to objective based shooters that no other game had achieved. If indeed it needs to be made ‘more welcome’ than it already is, then I think you should be questioning the mental capacity of the demographic it’s aimed towards rather than the game itself, cos really… it’s already simplified as it is without slicing any more brain cells from it.

If it does indeed need to be dumbed down and simplifed even more to make it accessible to the average console player, then I think this experiment has proven that the consoles just aren’t ready for an adult shooter that requires some rational thought.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think it would matter how simple SD made it. It’s the genre that isn’t that big on console, not how hard or easy it is to play.

I have noticed that compared to PC, many console players just want to kill things, and their definition of a “team” based game is Team Deathmatch. Even when you present them with a game team based game (Bad Company 2, Brink, etc.) 9 times out of 10, the games just turn into huge TDM battles, with only a handful of players actually trying to complete objectives.

Even more so, they want TDM games that don’t require too high of a skill ceiling to master. Perhaps this is why games like Halo and COD are so popular on console and games like Quake and UT never really caught on.

(Ix LP xI) #54

I understand what you mean; I played a lot of BFBC2 on xbox and most conquest matches turned into a slayer match with capturable respawn points.

However, this might tell us why most people only want to only play defense on Brink. It’s basically a slayer game with a time limit!

(DarkangelUK) #55

In that case it sounds like the gametype itself is the issue, and no amount of messing with menus etc. will change their mindset towards the objective based genre.

(H0RSE) #56

I’m also fairly certain that a majority of the players that were crying out for a TDM mode to be added to Brink when it was in development, were from the console community.

(V1cK_dB) #57

Where do you get all your BS from? Console players don’t want a teamwork oriented game. They only want TDM (sure many do but not all). I disagree with these gross generalizations. How about Brink is just a badly designed game and people don’t want to put up with it? The online structure of the game is terrible and that is why it failed on console. Not because it requires teamwork. That is just another in a long line of excuses.

(.Chris.) #58

I’ve never played a match, public or otherwise in 8 years or so in a team based game were the player of the match didn’t kill anyone.

(wolfnemesis75) #59

If you notice I suggested a way to incorporate full teams of friends (clans) into the mix and a place for them to battle it out. Hopefully something like this eventually makes its way to Brink. Because, naturally a group of friends who play regularly together are already pubstomping other players.

Many over the past few weeks have called for Team Balancing and one guy even quit Brink on this forum because there’s no auto-team balance.

Having a Clan Wars section in the menu could alleviate some of the feeling that there’s no chance for randoms/newer players. And I also suggested a way for Lonewolf (solo players) who are used to Brink to get in on the action in the Clan War section as well.

I hope this kind of stuff can be added to Brink, because friends want to play together, and ultimately its unrealistic to expect them to get shuffled against their will to the other team.

Rather than having so many redundant menu options which Brink has currently, and instead steamlining them and providing places to go that accommodate each group of Brinkers would lower the barrier that naturally springs up when you throw everyone together in the mix, and some are randoms, and some are battle-tested teams.

Our concern (the people I play with regularly) is that we potentially drive people away from Brink and cause them to rage quit, because they can’t stop us and we full hold on every map on defense. On Friday, we literally had to wait on Founders tower in a far-off section so the other team could hack. That’s just not fun for anyone. :frowning:

(DarkangelUK) #60

That seems to be a contradiction then is it not? If there’s that many new players, and you lot are taking up most of the slots, then you shouldn’t be chasing any significant number of players away… all I hear is that the console is a thriving community of Brink players with full games left right and centre, yet apparently something needs to be done to keep players there? Are we maybe pretending that the console is a bustling playground of Brink players because we’re in denial?

And again, that suggests the game is aimed at the wrong demographic (and platform). If getting beaten causes them to put that disc away in a drawer never to be played again, then again this proves that this isn’t the type of game for the average ADHD console gamer that makes up the majority of the market.