Body Types

(Apoc) #1

I was wondering if your charecters body type was changeable in game?
I have a feeling it wont be which causes many concerns;

[ol]
[li]Only when you have an organised clan team will you have an evenly spread team.[/li][li]Because one body type may become very popular, there is a danger of just 8 heavy v 8 heavy etc etc etc…[/li][li]Due to the lack of the option of changing body type, a team may find themselves up against a group of opponents who they cannot beat i.e. if everyones skinny and the other team have a couple of very good aimers just running around headshotting everyone. The dilema now is that there is no option to try and counter their supreme aiming with supreme weaponry and health. Meaning match’s may be decided before they even start.[/li][li]Games like etqw were fantastic because there was always a counter…if they had tons of rocket launchers, you get a couple of snipers. They have lots of infantry you get a hyper/gmpg etc etc etc. I feel brink may risk the danger of the scenario where a team has like 6 heavies, and the other team cannot compete as they are all skinny, and the sheer volume of bullets and higher health from heavies (especially with medics helping) may be unstoppable without also changing to heavy yourself.[/li][/ol]
That was all that was on my mind

(Nail) #2

you don’t like the bunch of idiots you’re playing with, change servers

(Ragoo) #3

We already had a loong discussion about that and I agree with you Apoc. Maybe SD will put in the server option to make characters changeable during the game :slight_smile:

But they won’t do that for their vanilla servers.

(shirosae) #4

There was a big discussion about this on this forum a few months ago. Rahdo was convinced it would cause problems. I argued that locking bodytypes in wouldn’t solve those problems. To his credit, Rahdo made a big reply to me, but it disappeared (not Rahdo’s doing, prolly some kind of crash or something) before I got a chance to read it.

I asked for switchable bodytypes to be an option on hardcore servers, since it might provide a fun extra layer of strategy and solve the ‘what-if-people-leave-then-rejoin’ problem. If this isn’t in the game by default, then it’ll probably be added by a promod type thing, assuming the bodytype thing doesn’t suck so much that it’s unsalvagable.

(tokamak) #5

I still don’t understand how that works with locking light and heavy for beginners.

(INF3RN0) #6

They need to worry less about marketing surprises, and a little bit more about making sure that their customers understand the facts… At least push a more detailed debut ahead of schedule plz.

(aimology) #7

[QUOTE=Apoc;214020]I was wondering if your charecters body type was changeable in game?
I have a feeling it wont be which causes many concerns;

  1. [li]Only when you have an organised clan team will you have an evenly spread team.
    [/li][li]Because one body type may become very popular, there is a danger of just 8 heavy v 8 heavy etc etc etc…
    [/li]
    [li]Due to the lack of the option of changing body type, a team may find themselves up against a group of opponents who they cannot beat i.e. if everyones skinny and the other team have a couple of very good aimers just running around headshotting everyone. The dilema now is that there is no option to try and counter their supreme aiming with supreme weaponry and health. Meaning match’s may be decided before they even start.
    [/li][li]Games like etqw were fantastic because there was always a counter…if they had tons of rocket launchers, you get a couple of snipers. They have lots of infantry you get a hyper/gmpg etc etc etc. I feel brink may risk the danger of the scenario where a team has like 6 heavies, and the other team cannot compete as they are all skinny, and the sheer volume of bullets and higher health from heavies (especially with medics helping) may be unstoppable without also changing to heavy yourself.
    [/li]

That was all that was on my mind[/QUOTE]

game is not even out yet, so we have no idea how heavies even play… people keep making stupid assumptions before anything is really known. If people in (tf2) had all heavies and medics they suck, could be the same for this game. We have no idea and Im 100% sure anyways this wont be a problem, why? take out medics and then the heavies… There is always a counter for anything in any game… Problem is people dont have the common sense to think of it.

(aimology) #8

Agreed 100%.

(Apoc) #9

Haha jeeesus, sounds like its someones time of the month…

The heavies thing was only an example…as you can will notice if you re read it. My point was that i think locking body types once in game removes a level of strategy and counter tactics that could have been available.

May i also extend my most sincere apology for my clearly idiotic thoughts, i had no idea you would be reading them, i am sorry i have graced your superior eyes with their prescence.

(tokamak) #10

[QUOTE=Apoc;214322]The heavies thing was only an example…as you can will notice if you re read it. My point was that i think locking body types once in game removes a level of strategy and counter tactics that could have been available.
[/QUOTE]

Not at all, making them adjustable at will would remove a level of strategy as you could simply counter whatever is thrown at you right away instead of actually having to use the cards you’ve been dealt and improvise.

(Apoc) #11

But the number of available options you have to improvise with are limited by this considerably. I think the fact that a game could have constantly changing classes, body types and strategies, all through a single map in a cycle of counters would be thouroughly entertaining and very tactical.

See the dilema i have is that after reading a review of brink in PCgamer, it said that the light body class, could get one shotted with some weapons (im guessing this is probably one of the heavy shotguns). If we were to play a team with lots of these weapons then maybe the best counter would be to go medium or heavy and fight fire with fire.

(tokamak) #12

Sure the light bodytype can be one-shotted by some weapons, but the shots are far harder to land on a small and fast moving target than on a big and slow movnig target. A heavy guy may have big weapons, but it will take a while to get those weapons into a place where they can be effective.

The bodytypes are there to make the fight dynamic, to provide a relief in the game. Allowing people to constantly counter reduces this. Players would pick light to lemming objectives, whenever they needed a big gun to heavy etc, it takes away the permanent limitations and privileges which are the whole point of the bodytypes.

It’s not that there’s some rock-paper-scissors system going on here, any bodytype can defeat any bodyteap, it’s just that each body type requires it’s own approach to beat. They’re just there to add complexity to the game.

And it’s not just about shootouts. From what I gathered a light medic will be better heal someone in an emergency while the heavy medic will be capable of dishing out large quantities of not-so urgent heals.

Perhaps a light engineer will take longer to set up a turret than a heavy, but obviously will have a much easier time to put that turret on a very effective position quickly.

(signofzeta) #13

[quote=tokamak;214535]Sure the light bodytype can be one-shotted by some weapons, but the shots are far harder to land on a small and fast moving target than on a big and slow movnig target. A heavy guy may have big weapons, but it will take a while to get those weapons into a place where they can be effective.

The bodytypes are there to make the fight dynamic, to provide a relief in the game. Allowing people to constantly counter reduces this. Players would pick light to lemming objectives, whenever they needed a big gun to heavy etc, it takes away the permanent limitations and privileges which are the whole point of the bodytypes.

It’s not that there’s some rock-paper-scissors system going on here, any bodytype can defeat any bodyteap, it’s just that each body type requires it’s own approach to beat. They’re just there to add complexity to the game.

And it’s not just about shootouts. From what I gathered a light medic will be better heal someone in an emergency while the heavy medic will be capable of dishing out large quantities of not-so urgent heals.

Perhaps a light engineer will take longer to set up a turret than a heavy, but obviously will have a much easier time to put that turret on a very effective position quickly.[/quote]

maybe add a system to allow people to switch body types when they die for the billionth time, and purposely dying a billion times isn’t going to help your team, so choose that class wisely.

Note that a billion is a bit excessive, and a correct number of deaths without a lot of xp should allow you to change body types, signifying that maybe that player isn’t playing that body type to the full advantage, and thus that player should be able to choose a different one, so the team has a better chance instead of losing because one guy can’t play a certain body type.

(tokamak) #14

Well if he’s not playing his body to his advantage then it’s unlikely he’ll understand the others better.

(signofzeta) #15

Maybe I should reword what I just said. The game should detect how bad the team is losing, by counting the number of team deaths, or how the team isn’t advancing, and allow the team to switch body types to adapt to a new strategy instead of exhausting all of the strategies, because I don’t think that the body types are that perfectly balanced.

Kind of like a mulligan in Golf and in Magic the Gathering.

Now ask yourself, imagine if ETQW did not have class change, and you are stuck with one class. There you go. The environment changes, and so should your body type to suit each objective, but unlike class change, you are stuck with that body type unless your team is losing badly, because everyone knows that having a red green deck in Magic the gathering, and you have mountains and green creatures that cost 7 mana isn’t a good hand.

(tokamak) #16

Yeah thing is, bring doesn’t have fixed classes, you can even change them more easily than in ETQW.

The team will far more likely lose due to a bad class balance than a bad body balance. I don’t think there even will be a bad body balance.

(Lequis) #17

This is how this game is going to go for me if they balance it wrong:

I am going to play the campaign with the normal body type, unlock the light body type first chance I get, finish the game on single player (though I might do it with friends).

Then I am going to figure out which class I like, unlock stuff for that class.

I am going to go online.

If lots of people use heavies and engineers I am going to complain and call them noobs (to try to make the game precedent (do not use this body type/class unless you cannot help the team otherwise), because it is better to be a newbie than a cheap noob.

In the case that people continually exploit the extra health and turret defense/random instakill landmines, I will yell more.

I will finally give up and hate the game.

On the other hand…

If they really want to make the game fast paced, they should make the light body type better than the heavy. Most players should use normal, and light/heavy should be able to say gf (good fight), not wtf. Hopefully the dynamic will be scout/heavy in TF2, the only problem is it may be necessary to use a shotgun against a heavy, if that is the case I won’t like the game very much (also I don’t think light can wield them). Also the generic run around the heavy tactic doesn’t work because assuming the game is realistic, a light cannot shove a heavy and a heavy can shove a light, so light body type has to run in a large circle around heavies, switching directions to throw off aim.

By the way how it the engine for ET/QW? If it efficient?

[edit:] wait… I just realized that nades should one-hit players. I have no complaints. Even if the kill radius for a heavy isn’t that big, they don’t really move.

(tokamak) #18

You had my attention up till there.

(Rahdo) #19

yup, you can change body type between matches, but not during. shiro, thanks for reminding me about my old long post. will ask badman again if he can somehow dig it up. i could rewrite it, i suppose, but i’m old and tired :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #20

Well just simple search for user posts made by Rahdo mentioning bodytypes gave this post (plus a few more inappropriate holiday pictures in the hidden section :p)