Now as SD has not yet been able to release much detailed information regarding the tech specs of the body types and the server side system (which is still in testing), this poll is under the assumption that body types might have a significant situational importance to game play rather than being an experience enhancing feature (meaning that a certain arrangement of body types on a level playing field could offer significant advantage/disadvantage and determine win/loss). I have my doubts as to how well many of the game systems will adhere to the reassurance from SD that they will not create scenarios of chaotic balance issues, but I am curious what people in general think. I tried to add a few possible options to the poll so that there are not only two definite paths. If you picked other, please share.
Body Type System: Poll
+1 Meat Popsicle 
As I wrote elsewhere, as far as I can recall in one of the interviews (however I may be wrong)… body types are set at the start. As you gain XP along the way, body type changing is one of the options you can unlock using XP.
Server side options is an incredibly coward and uninteresting addition to the poll as it says nothing about how players would like to see the ‘pure’ game. It’s also not helping the potential server admins who’re still left in the dark about what players want.
I’m thorn. On one hand, I don’t want to be locked into a specific body type for long periods of times – one of my favorite aspects of class-based games with their rock-paper-scissors dynamic is the ability to quickly adapt your playstyle and abilities to the task at hand.
On the other, changing body times during matches seems a bit excessive thematically. Perhaps the ability to swap out your character in-game might suffice? “Ah, it seems we’re taking a lot of damage here, perhaps I’ll change from my sneaky Operative-focused class to my beefy Medic. Come 're, MEDICNATOR!”
To be honest there is not much to discuss here. If body types have a similar impact on balance and gameplay as classes it should be possible to change them in a similar way.
The problem is that this thread is based on a false assumption and you can go anywhere from there.
If bodtypes were comparable to the classes then I would agree. But that’s not the case here. A team with only one class won’t get past the second objective while a team with only one bodtype can do everything if they pick the right aproach.
On top of that. If people really are afraid of being at a severe disadvantage at some point, then maybe the light and heavy bodies are just not for them and they’re better off sticking with the medium type. No problem.
You actually already highlighted the problem with this yourself. People will always take the easiest route and play the optimised setup for the situation on the fly while the whole point of locking this down is to make it so that players don’t always have the perfect tools for the job and that they need to improvise their way around it.
I don’t know if that’s stance Splash Damage has. I vaguely remember Rahdo talking about the specific scenario I painted up, i.e. that you might have the ability to swap characters in the middle of a match. I personally could go either way; letting the structure of your loadout have more consequence is nice, but is it enough to completely disprove character swapping? I’m definitely for having to wait between matches to change body type anyway (just like all other abilities and weapons – being able to switch from being a skinny guy to a tank between spawns but not being able to swap out your assault rifle clearly is a very bad design choice).
I voted for server options because I don’t care that much how the pure game will look like. I only care about what competitive settings will be and that I cannot decide and I don’t have an opinion on this yet because a) I don’t know how the game plays and b) I don’t know what the (competitive) community thinks about it.
So I say ‘yes’ to server options now so we can decide what fits the competitive play best.
(I think that SD won’t implement different options and only give us locked body types (or rather locked characters) for a match though 
)
Yes, because letting players choose how they want to play the game only ruins it omgawd. Best way to go if you ask me… and a lot of games have a ton of server side options that makes them oh so much more enjoyable for everyone. Plus you get it in combination with different game modes, etc. Why does there have to be only one way to play huh? Having campaign mode as the only ranked option brought a lot of ruin to QW. I think your thinking with your head in the box or perhaps somewhere else…
[QUOTE=darthmob;217040]To be honest there is not much to discuss here. If body types have a similar impact on balance and gameplay as classes it should be possible to change them in a similar way.
The problem is that this thread is based on a false assumption and you can go anywhere from there.[/QUOTE]
Why is the entire argument against freeing up body types based on this assumption then?
That server admins can customise their game goes without saying, if SD doesn’t include it then BrinkPro will do it. I’m not against that but it makes no sense to include it in this poll.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217042]If bodtypes were comparable to the classes then I would agree. But that’s not the case here. A team with only one class won’t get past the second objective while a team with only one bodtype can do everything if they pick the right aproach.
On top of that. If people really are afraid of being at a severe disadvantage at some point, then maybe the light and heavy bodies are just not for them and they’re better off sticking with the medium type. No problem.
.[/QUOTE]
If your on an unorganized pub server, who is to decide which person has what body type? Radho said “all heavies on defense means all heavies on offense”, as if he was saying well it might work both ways, but it is unlikely. It is like we have to rely on people to mix it up enough so that you don’t get that kind of scenario. Why should people be forced to play medium out of necessity if too many people keep using the same body type, that just seems like a big limitation to the game. If body types are significant then they will be just as important as classes really. You need a good distribution of classes, but based on some descriptions of the body types, you will probably need a good distribution as well to make ground on a team level as opposed to an individual one.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217042]
You actually already highlighted the problem with this yourself. People will always take the easiest route and play the optimised setup for the situation on the fly while the whole point of locking this down is to make it so that players don’t always have the perfect tools for the job and that they need to improvise their way around it.[/QUOTE]
So you do believe that body types make a difference, and you think locking is fair because both sides have to deal with random bad situations, but then unlocking them is bad because somehow it is easier? Don’t both sides have the option, and would body types not be more suitable per offense or defense or perhaps personal choice instead of a single optimization? All I can see from locking them is creating potential problems, and yes it may feel more realistic in an RPG way, but this is still an FPS and these things are meant to add depth not control it.
Why does it have to always be Brink the game or Brink the mod? If the game allows for some options, then mods don’t have to fix the game. Server side options in no way hurt a game, and I would like an explanation of why you think it would? If someone doesn’t like it they will stop playing, which is what happened in quite a few game titles. If there are more options within the official game, then it let’s everyone be happy and stick around. There should not be any confusion that its either Brink pub or Brink comp, there is no wrong way to play a game…
The people playing.
Radho said “all heavies on defense means all heavies on offense”, as if he was saying well it might work both ways, but it is unlikely. It is like we have to rely on people to mix it up enough so that you don’t get that kind of scenario. Why should people be forced to play medium out of necessity if too many people keep using the same body type, that just seems like a big limitation to the game.
A wonderful argument FOR locking bodytypes, that way nobody will be peer pressured into doing anything.
If body types are significant then they will be just as important as classes really.
Absolute nonsense, without an engineer you won’t ever get past a construction objective.
You need a good distribution of classes, but based on some descriptions of the body types, you will probably need a good distribution as well to make ground on a team level as opposed to an individual one.
Classes are also buffing the people around them so having it sort of balanced across the team is quite essential. This doesn’t go for bodytypes which are meant to add variety to the games. The moment bodtypes need to be balanced across the team as well you’re back to where you started as there will always be roughly the same amount of light, medium and heavies playing. The whole point of the bodytypes is to prevent that from happening.
So you do believe that body types make a difference, and you think locking is fair because both sides have to deal with random bad situations, but then unlocking them is bad because somehow it is easier?
Yes absolutely.
Don’t both sides have the option, and would body types not be more suitable per offense or defense or perhaps personal choice instead of a single optimization? All I can see from locking them is creating potential problems, and yes it may feel more realistic in an RPG way, but this is still an FPS and these things are meant to add depth not control it.
That’s it. That’s your entire argument which you’ve been repeating across threads all the time and nothing else. The argument from ‘might be problematic’. Might as well remove bodytypes, classes, weapons and all other fun features because they ‘might cause potential problems’. You don’t actually have any rigid arguments against the lock at all.
And don’t put words in my mouth, I’m not argueing for realism, I’m the one argueing for depth, getting to change bodytypes on the fly is actually far more shallow as people will always take the most convenient route it will get the game stuck in fixed builds ‘this combination is neccesary for doing this, and this combination is neccesary for doing that’. But oh those are “potential problems” we conveniently ignore.
This is actually one big red herring as it has nothing to do with whether or not body types should be locked. ‘Pure’ vs ‘Custom’ is a completely different discussion and that’s why that poll choice messes up the poll.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217073]The people playing.
[/QUOTE]
And what is to stop people from lacking any sort of distribution and in turn affecting the outcome of a game?
It actually seems more like assuming that people will make a well thought out decision at the beginning of the game. Seems a lot more pressuring than being able to counter a mistake you might have made early on.
Yet all heavies on defense seems so intimidating and pretty sketchy on offense?
[QUOTE=tokamak;217073]
That’s it. That’s your entire argument which you’ve been repeating across threads all the time and nothing else. The argument from ‘might be problematic’. Might as well remove bodytypes, classes, weapons and all other fun features because they ‘might cause potential problems’. You don’t actually have any rigid arguments against the lock at all.[/QUOTE]
At this point we don’t know how significant an impact this will have yet, but if it does there is a lot more concern for locking than unlocking. Unlocking at least gives an equal opportunity on both sides instead of hoping that everyone on your team made the right decisions at the beginning of the match. You can change your class, so why can’t you change your body type as well? There is no logical argument against this, unless SD lays out the statistics and math and can show that it will not pose a problem.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217073]
And don’t put words in my mouth, I’m not argueing for realism, I’m the one argueing for depth, getting to change bodytypes on the fly is actually far more shallow as people will always take the most convenient route it will get the game stuck in fixed builds ‘this combination is neccesary for doing this, and this combination is neccesary for doing that’. But oh those are “potential problems” we conveniently ignore.[/QUOTE]
Locking adds depth through applying limits based on random chance. If there is a best way to do something all around, what is stopping one side from being able to exploit that, while the other suddenly realizes that they are in a bad spot and can’t do anything but disconnect? The only substantial reason behind locking I can see is that it adds more to the RPG “it takes away from the consistency of your e-self”.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217073]
This is actually one big red herring as it has nothing to do with whether or not body types should be locked. ‘Pure’ vs ‘Custom’ is a completely different discussion and that’s why that poll choice messes up the poll.[/QUOTE]
Really? It seems like there are plenty of people who want one or the other, or perhaps both. So why not make it an option and let everyone be happy? Just because your so gung hoe about something does not mean that it is the ‘pure’ and everyone else is ‘custom’. No need for one right option. The only problem options pose is the difficulty to track ranked stats.
Their skill and ability to adjust affects the outcome of the game. You’re assuming that bodytypes determine whether a team wins or loses.
It actually seems more like assuming that people will make a well thought out decision at the beginning of the game. Seems a lot more pressuring than being able to counter a mistake you might have made early on.
I hope so, it certainly rewards the people who do think ahead. And if people don’t like the style of their body, then just start a new character again.
Yet all heavies on defense seems so intimidating and pretty sketchy on offense?
Not if played right.
At this point we don’t know how significant an impact this will have yet, but if it does there is a lot more concern for locking than unlocking. Unlocking at least gives an equal opportunity on both sides instead of hoping that everyone on your team made the right decisions at the beginning of the match. You can change your class, so why can’t you change your body type as well? There is no logical argument against this, unless SD lays out the statistics and math and can show that it will not pose a problem.
Yeah DUH. If you diminish the impact of a feature you’re automatically also diminishing the impact of the problems that come with it. Apply that across the board and you’ve got one weak compromised game.
Locking adds depth through applying limits based on random chance. If there is a best way to do something all around, what is stopping one side from being able to exploit that, while the other suddenly realizes that they are in a bad spot and can’t do anything but disconnect? The only substantial reason behind locking I can see is that it adds more to the RPG “it takes away from the consistency of your e-self”.
Again your bodytype determinism. Bodytypes don’t determine the outcome, the way people use them however, does determine the outcome. In an RTS you don’t get to switch race halfway either “But it’s not an RTS”, sure not an RTS but the fixed variation at the start still applies.
Really? It seems like there are plenty of people who want one or the other, or perhaps both. So why not make it an option and let everyone be happy? Just because your so gung hoe about something does not mean that it is the ‘pure’ and everyone else is ‘custom’. No need for one right option. The only problem options pose is the difficulty to track ranked stats.
This is just a cop out, this line of reasoning actually occurs often in politics, you can’t defend your position any more so ‘let people figure it out for themselves’.
This discussion is NOT about the freedom of server admins, it’s about what’s best for the game. I’ve expressed myself in lots of threads about custom vs pure, I’m not going into that here.
If one bodytype completely imbalances a situation that much against another then that’s poor design, and poor design should be dealt with and not hidden behind the option of changing type. I would hopefully assume SD have tested extremes of 8 lights vs 8 heavies, and deemed it still workable by the fact body type is still currently locked.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217085]Their skill and ability to adjust affects the outcome of the game. You’re assuming that bodytypes determine whether a team wins or loses.
[/QUOTE]
I am assuming it might play an important if not equal role to that of class variation, and have not yet been given reassurance to believe otherwise.
Not if played right.
[/QUOTE]
Elaborate?
[QUOTE=tokamak;217085]
Yeah DUH. If you diminish the impact of a feature you’re automatically also diminishing the impact of the problems that come with it. Apply that across the board and you’ve got one weak compromised game.[/QUOTE]
Yea DUH? If you play it safe better than sorry in order to avoid serious balance problems, you at least can still depend on the unpredictability of the game to play like it was intended. It would be like pick one gun and stick with it because it is more in depth to have to learn to deal with something rather than to make it available for everyone, where in people become more dependent on their constant ability to adapt on more than one level rather than just getting good with what they already have.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217085]
Again your bodytype determinism. Bodytypes don’t determine the outcome, the way people use them however, does determine the outcome. In an RTS you don’t get to switch race halfway either “But it’s not an RTS”, sure not an RTS but the fixed variation at the start still applies.[/QUOTE]
So as long as someone is better at using their body type than another, then anything can work correctly.
[QUOTE=tokamak;217085]
This is just a cop out, this line of reasoning actually occurs often in politics, you can’t defend your position any more so ‘let people figure it out for themselves’.
This discussion is NOT about the freedom of server admins, it’s about what’s best for the game. I’ve expressed myself in lots of threads about custom vs pure, I’m not going into that here.[/QUOTE]
Lol… I have defended my point plenty and addressed both sides. There are pros and cons to both, and I am drawn between which is the more applicable option. Under the right conditions I can see locking working, but from a realistic view point I can see it also encompassing a lot of problems. You are so insistent with sticking to your side that you cannot meet me in the middle. If anything this system might require some refinement. When it comes to problem solving, compromise tends to be the most satisfying option. I really don’t see what is wrong with others having different approaches than yourself…
[QUOTE=INF3RN0;217067]Why is the entire argument against freeing up body types based on this assumption then?[/QUOTE]There’s a whole bunch of reasons why it shouldn’t be possible to switch them. Read tokamak’s and Rahdo’s posts!
In the beginning I too had the opinion that it should be possible to switch character types. I’m now convinced that it may be better the other way round. For me the best reason besides that it’s the way it’s meant to be played ( 
) is that it adds a whole new layer of depth.