Body Type System: Poll

(INF3RN0) #21

Indeed it would, which is why I think that they have put a lot of focus into ensuring that it does not. The focus however should also be equally on random compositions as you mentioned to ensure that any unorganized combination that might occur in a pub will not significantly determine the outcome. That is all I have been trying to say, and that if it proves not to work, then on to new solutions.

(INF3RN0) #22

[QUOTE=darthmob;217105]There’s a whole bunch of reasons why it shouldn’t be possible to switch them. Read tokamak’s and Rahdo’s posts!

In the beginning I too had the opinion that it should be possible to switch character types. I’m now convinced that it may be better the other way round. For me the best reason besides that it’s the way it’s meant to be played ( :wink: ) is that it adds a whole new layer of depth.[/QUOTE]

Just read the above response and my concern will make a bit more sense, as I am not against locking but concerned that it might be flawed. As long as SD can make it work consistently, then good, but with radical features comes risk and every aspect should be examined and tested thoroughly.

(DarkangelUK) #23

Why would they focus on something that’s not their goal? The goal is balance with locked bodytype, and you’re saying they should focus on the complete opposite… and that just makes no sense. What you really mean is, they should focus on what you want.

Rahdo has made it plainly clear that if something just doesn’t work as well as they want, then they drop it (molotovs, female models etc.), and since this is still on the go and hasn’t been dropped yet, then we can assume they’re happy with how it’s progressing until we hear otherwise.

(INF3RN0) #24

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;217111]Why would they focus on something that’s not their goal? The goal is balance with locked bodytype, and you’re saying they should focus on the complete opposite… and that just makes no sense. What you really mean is, they should focus on what you want.

Rahdo has made it plainly clear that if something just doesn’t work as well as they want, then they drop it (molotovs, female models etc.), and since this is still on the go and hasn’t been dropped yet, then we can assume they’re happy with how it’s progressing until we hear otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Eh… I think that their goal is to make a game that works first of all. What do I want? Balance. Why do so many games have balance issues? Things were overlooked in testing or not intended. I can safely assume that SD wants to make a balanced game, and I think that it is only helpful to their cause to expose potential flaws in a system so that they can ensure that they will not occur. If I was saying that I only thought unlocked was good because it allowed for more options, then it would be different. However that is not the case, as I want to be sure that if the body types are locked it will not cause any unforeseen problems with the game. Unlocking will not cause any balance issues, but simply lessen depth in the eyes of some. Still there is an assurance that it will not cause balance issues. Locking encompasses a lot more potential for error, which is where the concern lies. Is it wrong to worry?

(DarkangelUK) #25

Oh now we’re generalizing, yes they want to make a balanced game… with locked bodytypes. So again, if they want that to work, why would the place focus away from that onto something completely different?

(INF3RN0) #26

So the question was can you really achieve consistent balance in all cases with locked body types? They can want something to work, but it does not always mean that it will or perhaps only does under the right conditions, so then what? Present some other options that might be applicable fall backs, and hope that what ever they choose works. I don’t care what it is as long as it works :mad::).

(DarkangelUK) #27

Yeah i’ll refer you back to the “if something doesn’t work then SD usually drop it” comment then.

(INF3RN0) #28

Remember that game called QW :)…

(DarkangelUK) #29

Yes, and I enjoyed it quite a lot… still do.

So what you’re really saying is, you don’t trust them.

(INF3RN0) #30

[QUOTE=DarkangelUK;217119]Yes, and I enjoyed it quite a lot… still do.

So what you’re really saying is, you don’t trust them.[/QUOTE]

What I am saying is that nothing is ever perfect and every idea is not always a good one. Forums are here to also help expose potential problems or real problems in game mechanics. I really want this game to be good, and if I was a developer I would want as much skeptical feedback as anything else. If everyone kisses their feet about everything they try, then sometimes things get overlooked. You can tell that SD learned a lot from their work on QW, and have implemented solutions to those problems. We are on the same side here, so I really don’t understand why there’s hating.

(H0RSE) #31

If everyone kisses their feet about everything they try, then sometimes things get overlooked.
But that’s not the case… were you here fro the dedicated nade button discussion, or female avatars, or specific charge planting locations, default off on voice chat and of course, body types.

I say if you want free changing of body types, make it so you would have to change to a new character, not just change the current to a light or heavy. This way, you have the freedom of changing body types, and the balance of needing a different character to do it.

(DarkangelUK) #32

I like the sound of something, from my perspective i think it adds an element to the game that others lack… but because i like it im kissing their feet? Right, you’re one of those… if we don’t agree with your thoughts then we’re ‘fanboys’ and ‘kiss asses’. Wp m8

(INF3RN0) #33

[QUOTE=H0RSE;217122]But that’s not the case… were you here fro the dedicated nade button discussion, or female avatars, or specific charge planting locations, default off on voice chat and of course, body types.

I say if you want free changing of body types, make it so you would have to change to a new character, not just change the current to a light or heavy. This way, you have the freedom of changing body types, and the balance of needing a different character to do it.[/QUOTE]

A lot of the other discussions were for ease of use, luxury features, etc that would simply require extra effort by the devs. Charge planting is the closest comparison I think. Your view is one of the more constructive solutions I have heard, but would you need to disconnect in order to do this? This would be more of a mid-ground between locked and unlocked, which I think would encompass less problems than one or the other myself. In the case that you have up to 3 characters with the same unlocks, this would pretty much be like being able to change body types at will though. This brings me to wonder if a single character with free body type options would be at more of a disadvantage, depending on how they built their character, as opposed to being able to choose from completely specialized ones?

(tokamak) #34

We’re not kissing their feet, a few months ago they used to lean more towards not locking body types down maybe because they overlooked a few things that come with adjustable bodytypes.

If you can perceive and anticipate problems with these features then please just post those, use those arguments but just stop asserting that people are overlooking things without pointing them out.

(INF3RN0) #35

I have been making a point that balance>depth. I am trying to make some constructive conversation and yes you come across as a “kiss ass fan boy” for assuming that such discussion is pointless. If there was less limitations on the Q&A then such things could be avoided, but if we can only rely on vague statements then it brings about concern. I am not asking anyone to agree with me, just to think outside of the box. If anything can come from such discussion at all, it would be to bring potential issues to the devs attention that they did not think of. Without details we are left in the dark as to whether something so risky will actually have worth.

(INF3RN0) #36

[QUOTE=tokamak;217129]
If you can perceive and anticipate problems with these features then please just post those, use those arguments but just stop asserting that people are overlooking things without pointing them out.[/QUOTE]

Eum I have been for a long time lol. I can quote some here if you would like. Again though, all are based on the information we know thus far.

(DarkangelUK) #37

As was said, it was already discussed at great length on here and on IRC, but I guess those don’t count cos you weren’t part of it eh. I’d rather sound like a fanboy than a conceited moron (another word came to mind but i’ll save my infractions for something better). And as was said, at one point the method was leaning the other way… and well you know, balance = depth, it’s doesn’t have to be one or the other. But lemme guess, i was also a fanboy when i was arguing against them making the classes selectable?

(INF3RN0) #38

Sigh… I read through Radho’s posts regarding the body type system that they are leaning for atm. Balance=depth obvious, but if there is a feature that brings balance into question then that presents a problem. When your saying that whatever they pick will work, it just makes no sense to what your saying here. I am equally concerned with XP unlocks posing a similar problem, another case where depth does not necessarily equal balance. Don’t make classes selectable, you is crazy :wink:. What do you guys think are the cons of the lock system btw?

(H0RSE) #39

but would you need to disconnect in order to do this?
I don’t think you would have to. If you want to change bodytype, the game brings up a list of available characters you have, perhaps with a small summary, or icons showing you what skills they have, and you choose one.

This brings me to wonder if a single character with free body type options would be at more of a disadvantage, depending on how they built their character, as opposed to being able to choose from completely specialized ones?
And this is all apart of the fun accessibility of unlocks and multiple body types. Rather than just have “the best” abilities that everyone is going to use, SD is trying to make it much more accessible in the types of abilities that you will unlock. So if you want a ‘jack of all trades’ build, make him, if you want a specialized build, like only medic or soldier upgrades, than do it. It basically sets up the game to not only have classes, but the ability to have ‘super classes.’ Plus you will be able to sell back skills you don’t want, so you won’t be stuck with ‘useless’ abilities.

The only way I can see players being at a disadvantage, is if they have no clue what they are doing, they are choosing abilities that go against their playstyle, they can’t really aim that well and they are picking body types that they aren’t good at playing.

(DarkangelUK) #40

When did i say that what ever they pick will work? I said going on what information Rahdo has given us, features i’ve read, discussions in IRC, the testing going on and the fact they’ve dropped lesser things for not working properly the way they want… i would assume testing has concluded that it’s a working concept… how does that not make sense? I think you read the parts you want to read and ignore the rest.