Body Type Balance

(wolfnemesis75) #21

[QUOTE=montheponies;374521]hmm, so we take the Light class and make it worse to balance it against the other less-than used classes, wasn’t that similar to the weapon balancing debacle? [/QUOTE]But right now really the Light is the most viable choice (beyond style), which is why we are suggesting an adjustment. The guns are hard to balance out for different body types because ultimately the Light trumps all other choices. This thread is a discussion of ways to balance out the body types to make them all more worth using. :slight_smile:

(iezza) #22

[QUOTE=montheponies;374546]as counter arguments go i’ve had better. basically the premise in this thread seems to be summed up by SinDonor said;

“All I know is something NEEDS to be done, because 90% of high-level Brink players use the light body type with the Carb-9. Not fun.”

my argument is that there’s nothing wrong with the Light body…it’s simply the most suited to the game style, so what you would do is make my game “less fun” to suit someone who wants to roam with a minigun…Not fun.[/QUOTE]

im not against you, just your “contreversial” one was just that! i think heavies should have a knockback or knockdown effect with bullets.

(wolfnemesis75) #23

[QUOTE=iezza;374563]im not against you, just your “contreversial” one was just that! i think heavies should have a knockback or knockdown effect with bullets.[/QUOTE]Please No. If you’re suggesting Stopping Power. GTFO! :slight_smile:

(iezza) #24

no man, i was talking about giving them a javelin with danger cose and commando Dooooooood!

(ifistursist3r) #25

There should not be body types. They should have just one body type that can use all weapons, but heavy and medium weapons make him slower. Light weapons don’t interfere with speed and he can wall hop.
You can choose a heavy weapon load-out, but you are slow.
Medium weapon load-out can use the smart system, but can’t wall hop.
Smg load-out can wall hop and fully use the smart system.
You wouldn’t have to worry about changing body types during the match, because you have access to all
weapons. This is how it was in the container city demo, and you can obviously see that his character moves as fast as a light, even with the gerund.

(RabidAnubis) #26

[QUOTE=ifistursist3r;374575]There should not be body types. They should have just one body type that can use all weapons, but heavy and medium weapons make him slower. Light weapons don’t interfere with speed and he can wall hop.
You can choose a heavy weapon load-out, but you are slow.
Medium weapon load-out can use the smart system, but can’t wall hop.
Smg load-out can wall hop and fully use the smart system.
You wouldn’t have to worry about changing body types during the match, because you have access to all
weapons. This is how it was in the container city demo, and you can obviously see that his character moves as fast as a light, even with the gerund.[/QUOTE]

No. It wasn’t. There was heavies in the 2009 trailer.

Facepalm.

(ifistursist3r) #27

Check the vid of the container city demo, the medium uses the hammer shotgun. Btw good one with the internet facepalm you gave me there. That made my day.

(RabidAnubis) #28

I think that may have been a change from the weapon.

And that was alpha gameplay. (I think? Or was it beta?)

(ifistursist3r) #29

Cool stuff though, I wish Brink looked as good as that. I really like the grenade effects in it, too.

(RabidAnubis) #30

The grenade effects made the game impossible to play though. Too much dust.

(Humate) #31

[QUOTE=ifistursist3r;374575]There should not be body types. They should have just one body type that can use all weapons, but heavy and medium weapons make him slower. Light weapons don’t interfere with speed and he can wall hop.
You can choose a heavy weapon load-out, but you are slow.
Medium weapon load-out can use the smart system, but can’t wall hop.
Smg load-out can wall hop and fully use the smart system.
You wouldn’t have to worry about changing body types during the match, because you have access to all
weapons. This is how it was in the container city demo, and you can obviously see that his character moves as fast as a light, even with the gerund.[/QUOTE]

Yep tried and true gameplay mechanic.

You switch to your lighter gun to move around, and shoot with your main.
In doing that though, you would find most players going for heavy weapons, and pistols.
So a nice way of beating that, is by tieing weapons to class.
Oh wait thats another old chestnut.

Hmmm. Maybe they shouldnt have tried to re-invent the wheel. shrugs

(tokamak) #32

You wouldn’t have to worry about changing body types during the match

You don’t have to worry about changing body types as it is.

(nephandys) #33

Say the heavy weapons worked as well accuracy wise as the Hyperblaster in ETQW (I know that’s a huge change) do you think that would be enough of a buff to hvys to balance out the light advantage?

I think nerfing the Light is a bad move. It’s the most fun/viable to play atm so I don’t think you should make it less fun/viable to make other body types a more balanced option. Make other body types more fun/viable IMO.

(wolfnemesis75) #34

[QUOTE=nephandys;374707]Say the heavy weapons worked as well accuracy wise as the Hyperblaster in ETQW (I know that’s a huge change) do you think that would be enough of a buff to hvys to balance out the light advantage?

I think nerfing the Light is a bad move. It’s the most fun/viable to play atm so I don’t think you should make it less fun/viable to make other body types a more balanced option. Make other body types more fun/viable IMO.[/QUOTE]The suggested work-around of Lowering Light Body Type’s Hit Points but speeding up their health regeneration is not necessarily a nerf at all if you sit down and think about how the game plays. The weapons are irrelevant, when Light has all possible advantages in every single situation.

(tokamak) #35

[QUOTE=nephandys;374707]I think nerfing the Light is a bad move. It’s the most fun/viable to play atm so I don’t think you should make it less fun/viable to make other body types a more balanced option. Make other body types more fun/viable IMO.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not really a nerf. A faster regeneration may make them stronger, even with the lower hp included. It only means their strength is moved into a new territory, one that isn’t particularly used right now. And most important of all, the light no longer encroaches on the strengths of the mediums and heavies.

The problem isn’t that lights are overly strong, it’s just that next to their supposed strengths, they also tend to equal or be better than the mediums and heavies in points where they shouldn’t (like up front confrontations and holding a position) that needs to change.

People propose a knock-down immunity for heavies. But I like the knock-down mechanic and should stay in there as much as possible. On particular strength the heavies could have is better accuracy when knocked down.

(nephandys) #36

[QUOTE=tokamak;374715]It’s not really a nerf. A faster regeneration may make them stronger, even with the lower hp included. It only means their strength is moved into a new territory, one that isn’t particularly used right now. And most important of all, the light no longer encroaches on the strengths of the mediums and heavies.

The problem isn’t that lights are overly strong, it’s just that next to their supposed strengths, they also tend to equal or be better than the mediums and heavies in points where they shouldn’t (like up front confrontations and holding a position) that needs to change.

People propose a knock-down immunity for heavies. But I like the knock-down mechanic and should stay in there as much as possible. On particular strength the heavies could have is better accuracy when knocked down.[/QUOTE]
I’d only disagree with decreasing their HP. Right now I think it’s at a nice sweet spot where you live long enough to be effective, but at the same time it feels like you can take noticably less dmg than a med or hvy and you definitely die faster under direct fire. Maybe that’s just my experience though. I guess my feeling is that by making the hvy weapons much accurate it might solve the whole problem. Like right now my C9 bullets have a larger to hit box to hit and hit more accurately (for w/e that’s worth in this game) than the Gotlung for example. Therefore, I think that’s why I come out on top as a light in that fight.

Do you guys think they’re coming out on top for more HP/Health regen related reasons? It seems if that’s the factor you want to tweak then that’s the reason you think they’re coming out on top.

(wolfnemesis75) #37

[QUOTE=nephandys;374750]I’d only disagree with decreasing their HP. Right now I think it’s at a nice sweet spot where you live long enough to be effective, but at the same time it feels like you can take noticably less dmg than a med or hvy and you definitely die faster under direct fire. Maybe that’s just my experience though. I guess my feeling is that by making the hvy weapons much accurate it might solve the whole problem. Like right now my C9 bullets have a larger to hit box to hit and hit more accurately (for w/e that’s worth in this game) than the Gotlung for example. Therefore, I think that’s why I come out on top as a light in that fight.

Do you guys think they’re coming out on top for more HP/Health regen related reasons? It seems if that’s the factor you want to tweak then that’s the reason you think they’re coming out on top.[/QUOTE]I’ll let tokamak explain. I think he’ll do a better job than me. :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #38

Yeah I think they do. Of course not always, but the high spread combined with the high headshot damaged compared to the overall damage means that there’s a good possibility that a light can topple a heavy in an equal setting. That should just never happen. Not ever ever ever, regardless of skill. The biggest newbie heavy should be able to win from a pro light guy 100% of the time in every up-front confrontation. That’s the only thing a heavy has (or rather should have) going for, and right now, they don’t have it.

The light has the mobility, but doesn’t really need it that often. This change, by lowering the health pool and giving them (much) faster regenerate will only move the strength of the light. It would mean that a direct confrontation would no longer be valid, but at the same time, getting out of the way, dododging, and flanking will become more valid.

On short time intervals their hp may be lower, but if a light manages to drag out a fight over a longer period, he’ll always come up top. Fast regeneration means that time is on the light guy’s side while the heavy, with decreases regeneration will need to hurry or he’ll end up being whittled down.

(GLUGLUG) #39

why not let the heavies carry TWO heavy weapons?
Gotlung and Chinzor ought to be able to take out those lights.
Or EZ Nade and Maximus?

What if the Med could carry a shotgun AND an AR?

Now lights can carry 2 light weapons, Mediums can carry 2 medium weapons and the heavy can have 2 heavys. SURELY that would make more people choose those types.

(wolfnemesis75) #40

[QUOTE=tokamak;374757]Yeah I think they do. Of course not always, but the high spread combined with the high headshot damaged compared to the overall damage means that there’s a good possibility that a light can topple a heavy in an equal setting. That should just never happen. Not ever ever ever, regardless of skill. The biggest newbie heavy should be able to win from a pro light guy 100% of the time in every up-front confrontation. That’s the only thing a heavy has (or rather should have) going for, and right now, they don’t have it.

The light has the mobility, but doesn’t really need it that often. This change, by lowering the health pool and giving them (much) faster regenerate will only move the strength of the light. It would mean that a direct confrontation would no longer be valid, but at the same time, getting out of the way, dododging, and flanking will become more valid.

On short time intervals their hp may be lower, but if a light manages to drag out a fight over a longer period, he’ll always come up top. Fast regeneration means that time is on the light guy’s side while the heavy, with decreases regeneration will need to hurry or he’ll end up being whittled down.[/QUOTE]Pretty spot on in my book. :slight_smile: