Body Type Balance

(nephandys) #1

While I personally think the best way to go about this would be as others have suggested to tweak the speeds of each body type I don’t think this will happen due to dev comments.

It looks like this might mean the only real tweaking they can do to body types is directly through HP changes and indirectly through weapon tweaks. With only those two options available what do people think are the best ways to balance the body types?

*If you can think of other options outside of the one’s I suggested that aren’t speed modifications feel free to discuss those as well.

(iezza) #2

natural kevlar

(wolfnemesis75) #3

I disagree that changing speed is worth doing at all. What’s the goal and the point?

What’s the goal with tweaking body types? Is the goal for there to be an even mix with Body Type? On an 8-man team is the ultimate goal to make it so there’s 1 Heavy, 2 Mediums, and 5 Lights? Or is the goal for there to be 2 Heavies 2 Mediums and 4 Lights? and so on. It depends on what you want for a mix.

Lights define the game because the Parkour movement is the basis for much of the game, have access to all areas, move the fastest to objs, evade the fastest and smallest hitbox and so can evade and cover ground faster plus are harder to hit.

Heavy and Medium have larger hit boxes. AND move slower. And do not have access to all areas. They are limited with more cons than pros. If you want to make them a bit more viable so that it increases the chance for more mix of body types than currently. Then you need a work-around.

My suggestion was: Heavy and Medium regenerate health faster than a Light would. Heavy regenerates faster than Medium. Multiplyer 2x Light for Medium and 2x for Heavy. So Heavy regenerates health at a rate 4x that of Light. This would give them an ability to resist bullets by using cover techniques and strafing and negate some of their built-in handicaps.

Work-around. :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #4

Regenerating health doesn’t make you more effective in direct combat.

Trying to make heavy and lights equal was a mistake in the first place. Lights are more efficient in that they spent more time doing useful stuff and less time travelling. That notion alone should justify making a heavy much stronger than he is now. Preferably in therms of fire power. Yeah the heavy weapons got buffed, but they can use another dose.

(wolfnemesis75) #5

Regenerating health would allow for them to possibly stay in the battle area longer cutting down on travel time and lack of mobility weaknesses. Not sure what else you could do since once knocked out of a fight, they are slow to recover. :slight_smile:

(AmishWarMachine) #6

This is my thoughts as well. Some form of damage mitigation factor based on body type.

I’ve posted about it elsewhere, but am currently too lazy to hunt it down and link it~

(tokamak) #7

True but the issue is combat effectiveness and you can’t solve that issue with something that has nothing to do with it.

Reversing it would be interesting. Give lights faster regeneration time and lower their max hp and you push them in the role of harassers and scouts.

(wolfnemesis75) #8

[QUOTE=tokamak;374472]True but the issue is combat effectiveness and you can’t solve that issue with something that has nothing to do with it.

Reversing it would be interesting. Give lights faster regeneration time and lower their max hp and you push them in the role of harassers and scouts.[/QUOTE]True. This was also a thought I had as well. Lowering the HP of Lights would upset some but maybe having them regenerate health faster plays to their ability to evade and traverse areas quickly. Lights would have to be craftier in combat.Concept as scout in this way works. I’d like to give it a go. :slight_smile:

(Cep) #9

I agree with Wolfie’s thoughts on the multipliers but I think it should apply to health not regeneration. A medium should have twice the health of a light and a heavy 3 times with some sort of natural toughness (kevlar).

The hit boxes and the lack of speed for these types would then be fairly balanced by their ability to sustain fire, especially the heavy.

However I think the most important tweaks have to come in around the weapons, SMGs must be nerfed, AR’s must have their damage raised and Heavy weapons should be slower to cycle but absolutely devastating.

(nephandys) #10

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;374458]
What’s the goal with tweaking body types? [/QUOTE]
The goal is so that competitive players or, players that are focused on the win if you prefer, would even consider using any body type besides light. Ideally they would not only consider using one, but at least some would actually choose to play a med or hvy outside of just for shiggles.

(SinDonor) #11

From that other thread:

I think the biggest advantages the Light body type have, which are magnified by a skilled player are:

  1. Speed - It’s hard to hit a strafing, sprinting target, especially when they are the quickest of all targets. They can attack and retreat the fastest. If they get killed, they can get back to the Obj twice as fast as a lumbering Heavy.

  2. Hit Box - Not only are Lights fast, but they also are skinny which makes these high spread weapons even more frustrating as bullets whiz past their skinny bodies.

  3. SMART - Lights can move the fastest around obstacles and can reach areas the other body types cannot, which is great when utilizing quickest paths to and from Obj’s.

  4. SMGs - Light’s main weapon is the SMG, and the SMGs are great up close. Since a light has the other three bonuses listed above, it’s easy for them to close the distance between them and their targets while taking as little damage as possible. Considering that Brink has more confined areas near OBJ’s than open areas, this also plays to a light’s advantage. Who cares if your enemy’s got a Gotlung when any SMG’s damage at that range is about the same, considering the confined battle area. Just hop and slide from cover to cover until you’ve got the positional advantage.

Those 4 points above combined, when utilized properly by a good player, trump ANYTHING the other body types have for an advantage.

With all that being mentioned, and partially knowing what can and cannot be changed, the only ways I can think of to improve the game so it’s not so Light Body-type friendly, is to decrease the spread of Medium and Heavy weapons, and perhaps decrease the range and damage of SMGs a tiny bit. Even so, a good light will still be able to hop around and unload a half clip into anyone’s face, but maybe the Mediums and Heavies will have a better chance to get some long/med range hits if their weapons were more stable.

If I could change anything, I’d also increase a Light’s screen shake when hit with ARs or Heavy LMG weapons. I’d allow Heavies to not be knocked on their ass by Light slides or GS shots (only normal frags and mines/C4). I’d maybe decrease damage to any body shots the Med/Heavy took from SMGs, forcing Light players to either aim for the head or shoot more bullets to kill a non-light if they’re just gonna bullet spam their target’s torso (this may be taken care of if they lower the range for SMGs).

All I know is something NEEDS to be done, because 90% of high-level Brink players use the light body type with the Carb-9. Not fun.

(tokamak) #12

Great, finally something we can agree on then. Faster regenerate and being more fragile really plays into it. They would need to pick their fights carefully and whittle players down rather than a full confrontation. It would also change the game on the other side, players will need to finish that light guy off or he’ll be back at you in no time again, this time with an advantage.

I think it’s brilliant. I never thought about using regeneration like that to set bodytypes apart.

You wouldn’t even need to change the weapons then. You can keep the SMG’s relatively strong so that lights still get rewarded for flanking and surprising players. It’s just up front that they’ll die before they can empty their clip.

And to pull things even further apart, a larger health pool can be compensated with a slower regeneration for heavies. That means they can bank on their initial advantage but can’t overplay their hand or they’ll be in trouble. You might even lower the regeneration so far that it becomes almost irrelevant, making the heavies mainly reliant on medics.

(wolfnemesis75) #13

[QUOTE=tokamak;374499]Great, finally something we can agree on then. Faster regenerate and being more fragile really plays into it. They would need to pick their fights carefully and whittle players down rather than a full confrontation. It would also change the game on the other side, players will need to finish that light guy off or he’ll be back at you in no time again, this time with an advantage.

I think it’s brilliant. I never thought about using regeneration like that to set bodytypes apart.

You wouldn’t even need to change the weapons then. You can keep the SMG’s relatively strong so that lights still get rewarded for flanking and surprising players. It’s just up front that they’ll die before they can empty their clip.

And to pull things even further apart, a larger health pool can be compensated with a slower regeneration for heavies. That means they can bank on their initial advantage but can’t overplay their hand or they’ll be in trouble. You might even lower the regeneration so far that it becomes almost irrelevant, making the heavies mainly reliant on medics.[/QUOTE]Bloody Brilliant indeed. I like too.
This gets the Wolf seal of approval. :slight_smile:

(SinDonor) #14

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;374504]Bloody Brilliant indeed. I like too.
This gets the Wolf seal of approval. :)[/QUOTE]

I like the new Avatar, Wolf!

(RabidAnubis) #15

Could they do less kick for heavies.

I mean they are big.

Otherwise, increase the HP drastically, lower the sprint speed.

People who play as heavies aren’t playing as heavies for the parkour.

(montheponies) #16

hmm, so we take the Light class and make it worse to balance it against the other less-than used classes, wasn’t that similar to the weapon balancing debacle?

Controversial: do away with body types altogether and simply change the movement speed / parkour based upon weapon choice…and restrict weapon choice based upon class…and do away with ops altogether as a class. :slight_smile:

(iezza) #17

[QUOTE=montheponies;374521]hmm, so we take the Light class and make it worse to balance it against the other less-than used classes, wasn’t that similar to the weapon balancing debacle?

Controversial: do away with body types altogether and simply change the movement speed / parkour based upon weapon choice…and restrict weapon choice based upon class…and do away with ops altogether as a class. :)[/QUOTE]


says it all

(Jimmy James) #18

[QUOTE=SinDonor;374493]
Who cares if your enemy’s got a Gotlung when any SMG’s damage at that range is about the same, considering the confined battle area.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with a number of your points I have to say that the Gotlung is much more efficient in close quarters combat than any SMG, including the CARB-9.

-JJ

(montheponies) #19

as counter arguments go i’ve had better. basically the premise in this thread seems to be summed up by SinDonor said;

“All I know is something NEEDS to be done, because 90% of high-level Brink players use the light body type with the Carb-9. Not fun.”

my argument is that there’s nothing wrong with the Light body…it’s simply the most suited to the game style, so what you would do is make my game “less fun” to suit someone who wants to roam with a minigun…Not fun.

(AmishWarMachine) #20

[QUOTE=montheponies;374546]as counter arguments go i’ve had better. basically the premise in this thread seems to be summed up by SinDonor said;

“All I know is something NEEDS to be done, because 90% of high-level Brink players use the light body type with the Carb-9. Not fun.”

my argument is that there’s nothing wrong with the Light body…it’s simply the most suited to the game style, so what you would do is make my game “less fun” to suit someone who wants to roam with a minigun…Not fun.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, nothing is wrong with the light body, it certainly fits exactly what SD said they set out to do… therefore I don’t think the light needs any tweaking at all.

However, SD does need to do something to make medium and heavy body types viable choices for all levels of play… or why even have them in-game?

Any/all potential tweaking needs to be done on the medium/heavy, while leaving the light body type alone.