BLOCKOUT WEDNESDAYS: Canary Wharf

(INF3RN0) #21

This part of the map actually shouldn’t be as much trouble as it is. You can drop down to the lower level by jumping over the side railing, but it’s very unclear. If there was a direct path down it would be much easier for people to find. Once your down there getting past the escalator is much easier. I just noticed that most people didn’t know you could drop down, and I did it on accident myself lol.

Also once the 1st objective is completed, there should be something that closes off the 1st obj area or at least something to block the escalators there. I saw a lot of people running up the wrong escalators back to the 1st obj on accident.

(Bangtastic) #22

I like: - depth of the battlefield -> long range firefights, good cover

I also see the second objective area as a problem zone. whether the hole teams push to the middle, which is really kamikaze. Only thing you can do here, is to push the left side and on the way activate the sideobjective and push further on the left, which is rather easy when you do it with the whole team. But before you get there, on the left side the small and narrow way can be tricky but it seems to be the only way.

an additonal pipe, vent/crouchway/ corridor for rather the right side

For the escort objective once you got the data cores, and got to the stairways, the enemy cant catch up

(Kendle) #23

Managed to get a few rounds in last night after all, and actually thought it was a very nice map. I particularly like the linear nature of the map and the ever advancing front line.

1st objective can be a little tricky as the approaches are a bit narrow, and the 2nd like many have said suffers a bit from everyone coming down that elevator. However I dropped down behind and went wide right several times and actually got behind the defence a few times, but if they’d been paying attention it wouldn’t have been easy.

Not crazy about the last objective, really don’t like the carry mechanics at all, and it seems Snipers are able to lock that area down quite effectively. Attacking from the top left I found easiest, as long as a defending Sniper wasn’t camping that approach. I also found it hard to get out of spawn on defence a few times even though really there’s quite a lot of cover.

The data cores being exposed makes camping them fairly easy on defence, but once the carrier is a quarter the way home with them there’s no opportunity to stop them.

Overall however I really like it, just a pity I only got a few rounds in and now won’t be able to play it again till next week, presumably.

(Violator) #24

1. Which part of the map/objective you like most and why?
First objective, good firefights around the obj area + nice chokepoints around each door. Roof is also a good ‘king of the hill’ area :). The escalators make good choke points, fun to try and hold and to storm on attack.

2. Which part of the map/objective you dislike most and why?
The last objective, hard work for attack - the first match when half the def team were snipers made this hell.

3. Do you find any particular part of the map useless?
All seems good so far, map is pretty linear.

4. Which route/position do you find the most useful when attacking/defending particular objectives?
Roof control is vital for 1st objective. Sneaking around the pipes can be useful.

5. What tactics (if any) do you employ when trying to complete/defend particular objectives?
Holding the chokes (escalators etc.) seems more important in this map as there are less flanking options.

Overall a good map bar the last objective which I think needs some work.

(en2ie) #25

Nope, is that an intended way in? maybe through the ceiling?

(montheponies) #26

Only played a few rounds last night, couple of initial thoughts/comments;

  • On defense, first stage it’s quite easy to get spawn camped from above - big wide space and escalators channelling you.

  • Last stage - with the attackers and defenders coming at the objective (data cores) from opposite ends, it would be better to have the data core/obj being delivered to an area that is equidistant between both teams spawns, or maybe slightly offense biased - as Kendle mentioned, once the obj runner get’s a short distance away he’s pretty much gone. I’d also suggest reverting to the original doc runner mechanic, ie. offense run over and pick up, defense run over and return. I’d not have it being done more than once just seems like unnecessary padding out - not every map has to last 20min.

I really like the map and would like to see more of the same - just say no to EV :slight_smile:

(iwound) #27

i also think the last data core run back into attackers side is flawed.
as others have said once you get to the last turn your home and dry.
you may get shot but a team-mate can finish the run.

better to have it maybe at the bottom of the escalators or below the high train tracks maybe into a lift that raises into the train.
id prefer at the escalator but it doesnt make much sense. meh.

if the drop off point were at the bottom of the high tracks in some office for cover.
then the pick up point could be at the opposite end in a carriage equidistant 'ish between the two teams.

im also not 100% on the position of the crane. it feels too claustrophobic up against attackers wall.
would it not be better in the middle over the tracks. a centre-piece to the arena.
then the datacore run as i described above to could be running underneath said crane.
with crates creating cover and a path for the run. see pic. all the red and white sits above the tracks with steps access.

CWlastobj.jpg730×776 62.3 KB

when as attackers we started the last objective. defence held us up high. and
you could feel the dynamic spawns pushing us forward. it felt ok. not nerfed but helped prevent a total hold there.

map felt fun all the way. just a little less so in the last area. if you can nail this area down and with the great artwork.
this will be a great map. a massive difference to how i felt about it a week ago. changes have really tightened up the flow.

(INF3RN0) #28

[QUOTE=iwound;442142]i also think the last data core run back into attackers side is flawed.
as others have said once you get to the last turn your home and dry.
you may get shot but a team-mate can finish the run.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, I really don’t want this to be the trend. Dear map designers, please please re-examine the older doc run layouts. The pickup and transmit points were equally accessible by both the offense and defense; if anything there was a very slight bias for offense to get to pickup and defense to get to transmit. This way your fighting at both locations and in between, which means you can actually prevent transmits. Right now its all about holding the data pickup area as long as you can, but once they grab it it’s gg. This has to happen for the doc run objs to be any good.

Also if this change occurs across the board we would probably just end up needing 1 doc and not 3. Let’s see a test for echo results :wink:!

(ZernoK) #29

Which part of the map/objective you like most and why?
Stage 3, good mixture of open and close combat areas to fight in.

Which part of the map/objective you dislike most and why?
Stage 2 objectives, I thought defenders spawned too close to the objectives, though this was on an objective server I believe? So it could simply be the lack of spawn waves being my issue here.

Do you find any particular part of the map useless?
The stage 3 objective on the lower platform, none ever went for it I think. Too easy to get shot at compared to the one at the higher platform and I think they both serve the same purpose?

Which route/position do you find the most useful when attacking/defending particular objectives?
Found myself jumping down behind the escalators between stage 1 and 2 all the time, was a really needed route to get past that choke that would’ve otherwise been a nightmare to get past.
The elevator on stage 1 is perfect for getting flanking opportunities to get through the defense.

(Fishbus) #30

We’ll be doing this again this Wednesday, hopefully with a new version. Either way, get ready to clamber along some pipes!

(BomBaKlaK) #31

yeah !!!
just Miss the 1rst one

(MrFunkyFunk) #32

Looking forward to it!
(So it’s today: shall we expect the new version already, with a general update?)

(Fishbus) #33

Hopefully, yep, we’ll have an updated version for today.

(Smooth) #34

[QUOTE=MrFunkyFunk;442826]Looking forward to it!
(So it’s today: shall we expect the new version already, with a general update?)[/QUOTE]
We’ll be playing the same version today, there isn’t an update scheduled for this afternoon :slight_smile:

(BomBaKlaK) #35

waiting the unlock :wink:

(Smooth) #36

The VIP servers are now open to all for the night, enjoy!

(BomBaKlaK) #37

So My first impression :

I like the way the map is build but I have a big problem with the last obj like a lot of people I think.
There is no way to intercept the objective run, and it’s one of the funniest part in that kind of objective.
Here, if the attackers get the obj and take the back way by the stair if’s finish …

Last point I think on the second objective the defense spawn is a bit to close an to much in front of the objective.

but the session was really short … We really need more players !
1 server is runnin in the best case, USA server is totally empty most of the time, and yesterday I play with 2 Chinese guys …
Open the gates to the “Elite pack” ?

(pulley) #38

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;442906]
but the session was really short … We really need more players !
1 server is runnin in the best case, USA server is totally empty most of the time, and yesterday I play with 2 Chinese guys …
Open the gates to the “Elite pack” ?[/QUOTE]

there should be at least 3 full servers at prime time.

(tokamak) #39

It’s indeed way too easy to get away with the objective once you have it. The route to run with the objective however, seems to be a lot of fun. I really do think that the most interesting way to solve this is to slow down the carrier. This is because once you’ve got the objective, you’re immediately around the corner and out of harms way. However, that big building site route is some kind of corridor. If the carrier is slowed down then it’s up to the attackers to lock down that corridor to prevent pursuers to jump in. Very interesting dynamic.

Further more I really like the big bottle neck just before that objective. One big route, one big meat-grinder. It’s not a bad thing to have such a scenario. Don’t try to balance that one, it’s fun for a change. The only worry I have with this is that when new weapons and tools enter the mix things may start to be different. I’d like to test Canary Wharf with the other characters as well because of this.

Escalators need to have a better caulk job. The edges need to be smoother because I keep struggling on them.

The only part I didn’t really like is the middle part, at the ticket gates. From the video it seemed like the tubing offered lots of strategic possibilities but in practice they’re just mostly cosmetical. In turn this leads to just have one weird chaotic space where there’s no real room for tactics.

(Kendle) #40

Good God NO! It’s bad enough you can’t shoot while carrying the damn things, being artificially slowed down as well would be terrible.

The one thing I’m really beginning to dislike about DB, in general, is the meat-grinder / lemming rush aspect of the objective carry stage. This is the case on all the maps, not just CW. I’m now finding myself only playing DB for short periods, even if there are populated servers, because it becomes just too frustrating with the spawn - run to meat-grinder on my own - die - spawn - repeat nature of the game.

There are a number of issues here IMO that are affecting this, and they all need to be addressed, there is no one single, simple, solution.

  1. Defenders spawn too close to the objective, and spawn times are too short. Coupled with lack of wave re-spawn on Obj servers, and you get the “meat-grinder” experience.

  2. Lack of a decent revive shield and way too fast gib times means you can’t put together Medic rushes to combat this, leading to “lemming rushes”.

  3. Not being able to shoot while carrying means most of those lemming rushes result in failure, compounding the “lemming” aspect of the rush in the first place.

  4. Once attack have the objective the route to take them is almost always away from defence, leaving little opportunity to recover them, Camden aside where you’re trying to deliver the objective right in front of defence spawn, which is just as stupid but for the opposite reason (easy to collect, hard to deliver, as opposed to hard to collect, easy to deliver).

The locations of spawns + objective collection and delivery points should be like the 4 corners of a square, with spawns at opposite corners, and the collection and delivery points at the other 2 opposite corners, so travel distance from each spawn to the objective is the same, but the route taken from collection point to delivery point is perpendicular to those spawn locations, so you’re not taking the objective away from or towards the other team. You could also (and probably should) add 2 routes, a shorter but more risky route that takes the objective past the defenders spawn, and a longer safer route that bends more towards attackers spawn (but being longer gives defence more chance to ambush the carrier at the delivery point).

The perfect example of such a map is Village from RTCW (yes that pesky game again, the one that’s already “written the formula” but which SD seem intent on ignoring).