Best Players on Defense

[schmeisser]

A completely unsubstantiated observation: Many of the best players play defense.
Why is this? It seems like offense takes much more skill and teamwork. Defense is largely delaying tactics and harassment, which many players have honed to a fine art. I have been playing for about a year now, past the total Noob stage, by which I mean I survive about 50% of my 1 vs. 1 firefights. Nearly every experience I have of total spawn rapage or crushing ownage has been Axis slaughtering Allied by clever behind the lines attacks. It’s getting so I play Axis when I feel like winning for a change.

[Rain]

Defense = More points¹ = Preference for defense = More practise on defence = Better players who play defense.

¹ Not always true, but often so.

[DG1]

not to mention more usual to be able to sit and camp for kills rather than have to run into camped players. more pwnage!!1111

funnily enough, it seems when axis are totally “raping”, but then the balance of power shifts, these axis players have often left before the dynamite finishes ticking

[L2_B4tt3rY]

a guy who plays my fav server “BiO” does that
called AdZz, he will go allies for both parts of the stopwatch and u can usually find him corner camping etc to raise his stats as high as possible, and when he cant get to the axis side he usually goes panzer etc until he can switch over

its a lot easier to be on the axis, u wait for them to come to u, as apposed to them waiting for u, generally gets u more kills

[Bongoboy]

There certainly are some perma-campers, but there are also a lot of fantastic “holding” players whose skill allows their teammates to splurge forwards, confident that the team won’t be left high and dry.
When I play defence, it’s like that. Whenever someone else does it, of course, it’s camping and XP-whoring. It’s a subtle difference, not always distinguishable to the inexpert eye…

[eRRoLfLyNN]

DG:
not to mention more usual to be able to sit and camp for kills rather than have to run into camped players. more pwnage!!1111

funnily enough, it seems when axis are totally “raping”, but then the balance of power shifts, these axis players have often left before the dynamite finishes ticking

I think that is the single most annoying thing about those players. They go for the easy ride, then jump ship when there’s a snifter of defeat by the team they had just been calling noobs etc. They won’t even give you the win. Cowrds one and all.

[Sick_Boy]

I hate axis players tbh, they are all sissies !

[Fusen]

except on railgun?

[schmeisser]

I played Fuel Dump on defense today for the first time in a while. It was almost boring, mowing them down as they tried to get the tank across the bridge. Axis were all over their backfield, spawnraping. It was a pathetic slaughter from start to finish. I have seen the odd Covop/Engie infiltration succeed unnoticed while all the xp whores are up in the bridge area, but it’s rare. Don’t you get bored with this? I tend to avoid the newer maps cause they are often unstable. Any reccommendations on a new map thats a little more balanced?

[ouroboro]

i prefer playing allied engineer because he’s the most important person in the game (except on railgun, which i loathe anyway). axis rambo medic is the best for playing super soldier, and it’s sure fun, but i don’t really care about my own stats. as allied engineer i die far more than i kill, but on the average pub server i often feel like the game was all me if allies win, because i was the one dying a dozen times to finally fix the tank or whatever, while my team was all off playing their own little grudge matches on the side.

allies are more fun because they have a mission to accomplish. axis just have to stop the allies till the clock runs out. that’s boring to me, i’m like a dog, i need you to throw a stick for me to go retrieve, i can’t just lay around all day like a cat.

offense is always more work than defense, and a round of et can be played engi vs engi, that says to me that allied engi is the most difficult position to play, and i always admire a good allied engi much more than an axis medic. matter of fact, as allied engi i often find myself alone facing 3-4 axis medics, so much so that they have become more or less like mosquitoes in my mind, and i hardly distinguish one from the other anymore. i just say “sigh, here we go again, let’s see if i can get my job done before these annoyances take me down”.

also i hate when my team sees an axis and runs off to chase him down. talk about taking the bait! often you can accomplish your objectives without firing a shot, so why not stick to your engineers and heal them and cover them only as needed rather than going to look for a fight? this isn’t quake, its et. your aim really don’t matter much if your team loses.

and if you’re ever on a server that says “go to www.blah-blah.com to see your stats” run away from that server because the players there will only be concerned with getting to the top of that webpage, rather than winning in the game. your stats mean nothing. oh and another thing, haha, if you’re ever about to win a map and people say “don’t win yet, let’s wait and gain some more xp”, haha! run away…

here’s what i do: unbind +scores, +stats, +topshots, and never click “more” after a round. you don’t need any of that information to know if “you won”. all you need to see is the flag at the top of the screen when the map is over. if it’s your flag, you won. if it’s their flag, you lost, even if the “more” menu was all your name, you still lost.

[schmeisser]

Yeah, Ouroboro, I agree. My favorite position is Allied Engie on most maps. Once all the Engie objectives are complete, I go to something else. I’m pretty good at offensive MG42, I like to snipe with it, espescially on Axis Medics, who are nearly invulnerable otherwise. Winning is good, but the maps are so defense weighted, I don’t invest much mental energy in winning per se. I just try to have fun and move the game forward. The xp whores can have defense, it’s boring and a little lame.

[eRRoLfLyNN]

You might like this thread schmeisser: http://www.splashdamage.com/index.php?name=pnPHPbb2&file=viewtopic&t=8302

It is a little rant I had about this kind of thing once…

[m3rl1n]

Defense - person to person - is easier. That’s the only reason why it seems like there are better players on defense.

Think about it. What’s the deadliest way to kill someone - headshot right? When someone is camping - or in defensive posture - they have the advantage of getting the first hit with a headshot because they know where you’re coming from.

First hit with a headshot = dead man walking.

I consider myself a solid player and I don’t prefer one side over the other - I play on the side that needs a player when I join a server (unless teams are stacked). Actually when it comes down to it I prefer Allies because the Medics - and allied uniforms/skins in general - look cooler. Not to mention I love me my Thompson.

But I do rack up more kills playing defense simply because it’s easier as explained above. I’ve held entire routes for 5+ minutes picking up enemy weapons as I go - it’s that easy to defend (Not because I’m an xp whore, because that’s my job as a defender).

My kill ratio is probably somewhere around 2/3 to 1 on defense and 1 to 1 on offence. Likewise my headshot percentage is anywhere from 90-100 percent on defense and 50-75 percent on offence.

I’m the same player. Same skill level, but - one on one, person to person - it’s harder to attack and easier to defend.

One of the most important parts of offensive, which many do not understand and confuse with xp whoring, is establishing forward controlled zones - areas where you are in control and now on defense. This puts the defense on offense and puts your team in a better position to break through. You have the advantage because they are now going to attempt to retake this zone from you and you become the defender, and defense is easier.

That’s why it always gets under my skin when I hear people (allies) shouting not to camp the 1st truck barrier in Gold Rush (for example). That zone is completely defendable and the axis will waste entire spawn cycles to get it back - half the team rushing right out of the spawn into enemy fire trying to retake the area - which means they are ignoring the tank and have to wait a good while to respawn again.

Not to mention if allies don’t cover that zone Axis can flank from both the side and back and you’re facing a fight on 3 sides instead of keeping it contained.

By the way - I don’t understand the need to win. A game is what you make out of it. I can enjoy a whole game on Fuel Dump (as allies) without the tank ever crossing the bridge, but others seem to be ready to burst veins. Joining one team or another just because you feel like wining seems like the wrong reason to play especially when you consider how many hundreds or thousands of times we’ve played these maps - we’ve done it all; won and lose x times over - wining just seems like a byproduct these days.

And no that does not mean I ignore my obligations as a Medic, Engineer, or whatever I’m playing. Countless times I have raised an entire Fire Team’s worth of players who are deep into enemy territory so they could continue an attack run, or given my life to raise someone else - I consider myself the very definition of a field medic - but that doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore an enemy who’s shooting at me. If he’s dead he can’t get in the way of our objectives.

Nor do I consider stats or xp worth my time of day to worry about. But I do enjoy seeing how I’m doing and stats are the best reflection of that.

If my accuracy is below 30 percent then I’m wasting ammo. If my kill ratio is anything below 1/1 I’m being careless (Engineer aside).

If these things make me a stat whore, xp whore, Rambo Medic, of whatever - then so be it, but I think those terms are thrown around far too liberally. I play the game how it’s meant to be played, on both sides of the fence, but as I said above; wining - to me - is a byproduct of the game. If it happens - great, if not I still had fun and did the best I could for my team.

[_NeT_WalBanger]

Have you thought that if the GOOD guys play on allies the round will be over so quick???
Many a time when i have blown the back door and ran in blowing the gun cotrols on battery level everyone has cried at the game being over in less than 3mins??

Basically…
Axis mess up 1 time = game over
Allies Mess up 100 times = nice long game

[tyrano]

DEPLOY MORTAR!

Saturate those pesky defenders holed up in their bunkers

[eRRoLfLyNN]

m3rl1n:
That’s why it always gets under my skin when I hear people (allies) shouting not to camp the 1st truck barrier in Gold Rush (for example). That zone is completely defendable and the axis will waste entire spawn cycles to get it back - half the team rushing right out of the spawn into enemy fire trying to retake the area - which means they are ignoring the tank and have to wait a good while to respawn again.

But there is a clock ticking. Holding that area is a total waste of time and players if the tank is still stuck at the corner after the bridge. Yes it’s great that it distracts some of the Axis players, but it’s also distracting Allied players who would make better ground if they supported each other on the path to the tank IMO. That’s why it annoys me to see it. The longer it takes for the tank to blow the bank door, the less time you have to get the gold.

I also love people who fix the truck when the tank is damaged at the second tank barrier.

[m3rl1n]

I don’t agree.

Like I said the distraction of being there is not the only reason that area needs to be held. If you don’t hold that area the Axis can get in behind the Allies and attack from what - 3 or 4 different directions? If you keep them contained they are forced through a bottleneck which is also easy to defend - i.e. the stairs up to the bridge, or under the bridge.

Since allies have the high ground it takes less people to hold that area and with proper FO support it’s easy to keep the Axis bottled up until the tank gets into the courtyard. Not to mention an Allied FO at the truck barrier is in perfect position to call down support on the primary exit from the Axis spawn, forcing them out the secondary spawn which equals more running time to the tank.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying half the team should be at the truck barrier, but 1-3 people should be holding that area. I’ve found it’s a very successful tactic.

Compared to when I ignored that area and Axis would attack us, not only regularly destroying the CP, but by calling in Artillery strike right near the spawn, or in the major paths out of it and would be 10 times more likely to be able to turn the tables and push the allies back way past the tank and keep them contained. Then you waste time regaining ground that should have been held in the first place.

Also consider that when the tank gets into the courtyard you now have a small strike team in perfect position to grab the gold before the Axis have a chance to camp the bank therefore you don’t need as much time because Axis defense is minimal at best.

I’m not saying I’m right, but I believe this is a critical task on Gold Rush and I have yet to have someone give me a solid reason as to why it is not, especially when you way the consequences of both actions - ignoring it, or camping it.

As for the truck - I don’t personally worry about it when I play Eng, however it’s good to keep it repaired because a.) if the timing is right and the tank gets into the courtyard and you grab the gold fast enough then you’re ready to go - and both barriers are likely down, and b.) because the axis will waste time away from the tank to disable it again.

This again comes back to there being a small team of players at the truck barrier keeping things in order on there end of the map and trusting there team mates to do the same with the tank.

I actually played this exact scenario last night. The tank was in the courtyard with plenty of time to spare and we were able to grab the gold before the Axis could camp the bank. Not only that but the truck was repaired and ready to go when we loaded it up. We rarely had trouble with Axis behind our lines and we were able to focus on our goals and ultimately win the map.

Once more thing I might point out is that having too many people in one area - whether at the tank or wherever - is just a recipe for an Axis FO multi-kill. Too many cooks…

[schmeisser]

I agree that defense is inherently easier, but I wonder if the greater opportunity for medium-distance shots available on defense breeds better players? Case in point, I play on Ilangame.com the FuelDump server a lot, cause I love the map. Nine times out of ten, it’s an Axis slaughterhouse. They play defense very aggressively, and many of the players have scary good aim. I have only mediocre skills, and have a tough time getting headshots, but I know how to move and use cover. I find myself and other Allied teamates consistently getting headshot killed from 25-50 feet out, which is not a confidence booster! There is a definite demoralizing psychology at work when you get driven back to your spawn by a clearly superior group of players. All the teamwork and tactical thinking avail you nothing if you can’t survive long enough to do the objectives. I keep coming back to basic skills as the key. My mind keeps screaming HEADSHOT HEADSHOT, but my eye and hand gravitate towards center of mass. I’ve read all the tutorials, played a thousand games, and still I get out-shot at least 50% of the time. If I had any map making knowledge, I’d design a map like a carnival shooting gallery, with a bunch of moving targets at various ranges for basic target practice. There is probably something to be said for the America’s Army setup where you must master some basic skills before playing online.

[Naminator]

Me personally, I used to like playing Axis for Xp whoring but noticed I was only achieving it thru camping and working as a team and you could see the allies on pub servers attacking in pairs or on their own. As a result, I couldn’t see myself improving my individual skill as I was not trying to be aggresive and maintain ground / or losing the initiative very often as I knew where to expect the enemy to appear. Just ended up defending an objective, which is very important especially in clan matches, but not a great skill improver.

As a result, I started to enjoy playing allies as it made me think more about getting kills, supporting / getting support whilst attacking a heavily defended point. Then gaining control of that area in order to push further forward as a team. This takes a lot of individual skill and team play. Even thou pub players dont really understand all of these aspects, their failings can be covered by you if you keep an eye on where they are. This helps to make you more aware of the overall picture, not just your individual 1 v 1.

In termx of class, I like to play FO or eng, but end up dieing lots due to lack of med support, and not managing to complete map objective or gaining ground which you can maintain hold of. This often happens, especially to pub players who play allied eng. As a result, I change to playing med in order to help out those helpless soles and look to complete the objective as a supporting player. In return, this gives me joy when I see that the team can perform well even against a very strong defence, and also helps to maintain / improve ny own individual skill.

Motto: There is always someone better than you, but there is nothing stopping you from being that good yourself

[L2_B4tt3rY]

i prefer attack over defence, except in proper matches i die FAR to much in proper matches on attack