Being Killed Too Much As Covert Ops

(wudan) #21

Being Tked as a CvOps is part of the class. It’s a good thing we don’t have bots - humans are much more foolish and better prey :slight_smile:

For godssake, I know you can complain if you are cvops, but don’t fricking do it.

(twiFight) #22

All coverts should play as soldier/engi/med/field before complaining…

seeing the difference between enemy and covert is NOT easy.

It does take half a second for the ‘do not shoot’ icon to appear (in some cases it doesn’t appear at all > bug?) and most good players are already emptying their clip before that time. Ofcourse I see it’s a covert pretty soon and stop shooting, but i’ve probably hit the covert two or three times.

I am also for a permanent icon above the heads. it doesn’t have to be big (actually i’d prefer it smaller that the icon we see now) but it should be permanent, so that we see the icon even if we are not dead centre targeting the model.

(twiFight) #23

Actually that other guy has a good suggestion too

(RivrStyx) #24

Yeah thats it…instead of making it easier on the team with a permanent icon or whatever…nobody play it…that will take care of the problem. :disgust: Being TKed as a covert doesn’t have to and should not be part of the class. :drink:

(Dr.Fragenstein) #25

The fireteam icons that previous posters mentioned can easily be toggled on/off. Here is something from the RTCW 4 Dummies that everybody should use:

  //Fireteam script - toggles buddy team icons
  set showteam "selectbuddy -2; set nextteamtoggle vstr hideteam; echo Team Highlighted"
  set hideteam "selectbuddy -1; set nextteamtoggle vstr showteam; echo Team icons hidden"
  set nextteamtoggle "vstr showteam"
  bind o "vstr nextteamtoggle"

perhaps with this players may start utilizing fireteams on public servers. Nah, that’s hoping for too much.

(Carcifier) #26

is that most people don’t play the game with much thought. They see, they shoot, they don’t spend a millisecond delaying. This is the way of the , shall I say it, nOOb. :slight_smile:

You should always identify every target. Sure, sometimes you can’t. However, you can usually tell when you don’t have the time to, that your teamates don’t shoot at you when they are disguised. Most of the time, they are headed to the enemy base, like you are.

I play all classes. If you are a soldier, wielding the panzer, you should never kill a covert ops. The main reason for this is, you should not be getting close to people. Because if you are close to the enemy, you will vaporize yourself. This is not the goal of a soldier, normally. Usually, a panzer wielder sees his foe at a distance, and putting the target reticle on him is easy and painless.

Also, you should use sound. Sound is the biggest difference between an experienced player and a “nOOb”. I see people all the time ignoring sound. Sound tells more than the graphics do. Listen for footsteps. Check your radar, you hear someone, but they don’t show on your radar, guess what??

Sound is huge, listen to the sound of machineguns. The Allies and Axis have distinctive sounding machineguns. If you hear the enemy machine gun, expect combat when you round that corner.

Of course, there are exceptions. Experienced players, like me, like to switch machineguns. When I am playing Field Ops, Engineer, or Medic, I switch out my MP40 for an enemy machinegun. I do this for two reasons. One, sound of my machinegun doesn’t alert enemy. Two, everytime I kill the enemy, it’s like a visit to the ammo store, I get a free machine gun clip at least. It’s much harder to run out of ammo. :slight_smile:

Then, there is the patience factor. People don’t ease around corners, they jump around them guns ablazing. This is how most Covert Ops die. You’re in the enemy base, you know your teamates are coming, you choose a non threatening stance, and your dumb teamate jumps out, thinks he surprised you, and fills you full of lead. Genius.

:clap:

(RivrStyx) #27

Wow…you are special dude.
I’m not going in to why…would take to long… but you must spend alot of time calling for a medic. Some of what you say is valid…while others is BS.

I was over at infurtas site and got it all worked out somewhat from what Dr.Fragenstein post stated.

(Dawg) #28

These suggestions will actually make it easier to identify a disguised covertOps as one of your own than it is to identify a properly uniformed teammate that is distant or in shadows.

The delay for the “don’t shot me” signal is by design. It is supposed to be dangerous for a covertOps to run around in an enemy uniform. It is not broken. It does not need ‘fixing.’

Dawg

(Vengeance) #29

I am in total agreement with dawg

(twiFight) #30

It is broken, cos sometimes the ‘do not shoot’ icon doesn’t appear at all (even standing at point blank range for 5 seconds)

[edit] this is not just with covert ops, sometimes the name doesn’t display over a normal allie either, or it takes a VERY long time. happens most when they are in a tank or serving a machine gun

(xBenDoverx) #31

I don’t understand why people are saying that it’s either ok to get shot, or you just need to take your time and aim at the enemy to see the Do Not Shoot icon to come up…would it REALLY hurt splash damage to pull a little icon over the head of the covert ops, stop backing up TKs because if I get TKed too damn much by my teamates, I’m gong to get frustrated and complain about them, that’s just the way it is. IT IS NOT RIGHT TO TK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. And I read previously someone say that you should hang around the enemy instead of hanging out with your team…what if you need ammo or health wise-guy? All I’m saying is that it’s sometimes frustrating to be a covert-ops…it is such an awesome class and it sux that I constantly get shot at by people, or have grenades launched at me, or even worse a panzerfaust. Like I stated before, it wouldn’t hurt splash damage just to put a little icon about the covert ops head…it will not slow down the game, it will only add to a very very awesome multiplayer experience. Also the idea of having the Do Not Shoot symbol on the covert ops WITHOUT putting your crosshairs on him seems like a good idea, just PLEASE do something!!

-xBenDoverx :angry:

(n00ber) #32

Off Topic…

Why does it randomly take away my uniform? I take it from someone, kill someone, and its gone. Later, I take someone’s uniform, I kill someone, and I still have it on! :???:

(Wraith2k3) #33

If you kill someone with an unsilenced weapon, or you’re seen killing someone with a silenced weapon, you’ll lose your disguise.

To keep your disguise you need to kill with a silenced weapon (knife, silenced pistol, silenced rifle) and not be seen (eg, from behind).

(Rippin Kitten) #34

Some covert ops TKs are the other guys fault, but there’s plenty you can do as a covert ops to minimize that risk.

First off, don’t come running towards a group of teammates or someplace your team is defending while in disguise. That’s just asking to be TKed. Keep an eye on your map and do everything you can do to avoid the situation, since the other guy may not be so diligent.

Second, take care of health and ammo before you go get in disguise. If you do need supplies, head to one of the ammo and health cabinets or “borrow” supplies from your “new teammates.” You can linger in the other team’s spawn and get all sorts of goodies when field ops and medics spawn.

Third, if you do have to go back to your base, fire off an unsilenced round to ditch your disguise. You save yourself a TK and you get an additional 5xp when you snag another pair of pants.

Fourth, don’t complain when you get TKed. Even if its blatently retarded. You just piss off your teammates and look whiney, neither is good for your long term prospects of winning the round.

RK

(xBenDoverx) #35

I appreciate the little lesson in proper cover-opsism, but would it reeeeally kill splash to add an icon? Someone give me a good reason why not to do that and I’ll shut up…but it has to be a good reason :wink:
:drink:

(Dawg) #36

It is broken, cos sometimes the ‘do not shoot’ icon doesn’t appear at all (even standing at point blank range for 5 seconds)

[edit] this is not just with covert ops, sometimes the name doesn’t display over a normal allie either, or it takes a VERY long time. happens most when they are in a tank or serving a machine gun[/quote]
Well, I thought the subject at hand was the standard delay on covertOps. If the subject is something else, I apologize. But from what I recall of this thread (not gonna reread it), the subject was that everyone wants little flags and what-not so they are not shot by their teammates when they are disguised. I’m sorry, but the latter is just part of the game.

I do occasionally see other delays such as you mention. Especially when players are prone or in tank (smaller hit box, perhaps?). I cannot say that I have ever seen (not seen?) the ‘don’t shoot me’ symbol refuse to come up on a friendly disguised covertOps after staring at them for 5 seconds. Was this guy standing there, prone, or on tank MG? You need to try to identify the exact state of the covertOps (and perhaps yourself) if you want the developers to try to fix it.

Keep in mind that any little flag is probably going to use the same API for determining if the guy in your view is a good guy or baddie. Therefore, the magical icon that will protect the disguised covertOps will not show up in all the same circumstances that the ‘don’t shoot me’ symbol does not.

Dawg

(senator) #37

someone give me a good reason why medics shouldn’t start wit 200 rounds of ammo ?

someone give me a goor reason why FieldOps shouldn’t regenerate health just like medics ?

Why can’t engineers pick up Panzerfausts ?

Every class has it’s disadvantages, the disadvantage of the CovOps is that it’s dangerous to wear an enemy uniform because you might get shot by your teammates. Is that so hard to understand ?
SD was already generous by adding the don’t-shoot sign, just imagine the whining had they discarded that!
It should be dangerous to disguise yourself and the way it’s done is good; don’t like getting TKed, play on FF-off servers (although they suck :wink: )

(Pamper) #38

I know the chance of a covert being TKed is part of the game design- the the game design in this regard is messed up.

The problem isn’t that wearing a disguise is dangerous for you- it’s that it’s not helpful for your team. Except on maps where Allies can open a locked door, getting a disguise does little to help your team. The only person it helps is the Covert, because he gets 5 XP for changing clothes. The main reason Axis Coverts wear disguise is not so they can kill better or do something useful behind the lines- it’s for the XP.

Wearing a disguise should be so helpful for you, you’d do it even without getting XP. But since SplashDamage had to put a 5XP award on disguise, it means that people weren’t disguising much otherwise. (That’s more points than you get for killing someone!)

Disguise should be fixed by taking away the XP bonus, and making it more powerful to compensate. The way to make it more powerful is to protect the Covert from TKs, by making him more obvious to teammates… Those two changes will balance out for the Covert, but will enhance teamplay, because they’ll only wear disguises when they can do something useful with it, instead of just for the XP.

(SCDS_reyalP) #39

in your opinion…

The problem isn’t that wearing a disguise is dangerous for you- it’s that it’s not helpful for your team. Except on maps where Allies can open a locked door, getting a disguise does little to help your team.

If you are doing anything just for the XP, rather than what your team needs to win, you are missing the point of the game (in my opinion). Disguise can be useful. It makes you a lot safer spotting mines, and helping your mortar soldiers target, for example. It can occasionally be useful for killing dug in enemies as well, for example, running into the bank and satcheling the mg42 gunners. With any XP system there will always be ways to whore points instead of helping your team. You could make the same argument for removing XP from any action in the game.

Disguised covops are REALLY EASY to spot if you get at all close to the enemy. We can only assume this is by design. To me, this supports the idea that disguise is something that enhances their other abilities, rather than an end in itself. IMO, it is just fine the way it is.

(Pamper) #40

in your opinion…

Yes, it’s my opinion. Because I can’t think of any good reason for coverts to get XP merely for changing clothes. Do you have any? I wrote another post with many reasons why Covert XP should be changed: http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2202

If you are doing anything just for the XP, rather than what your team needs to win, you are missing the point of the game (in my opinion).

Yes, but the XP system shouldn’t encourage that when it can be avoided. 5XP for stealing pants definately encourages it. There are a few other big holes that should be fixed: medics shouldn’t be awarded for healing someone you stabbed yourself, and engineers shouldn’t get XP for constructables when the tank has already gone by (or when the truck isn’t loaded with gold yet).

Disguise can be useful. It makes you a lot safer spotting mines, and helping your mortar soldiers target, for example.

For spotting mines, you get XP for doing that directly, so you shouldn’t have needed points from wearing the disguise. If you can spot more mines without getting killed, that’s where the XP should come from. Not just cuz you got pants.

Mortar spotting, on the other hand, is something you can do (in various degrees of safety) with or without a disguise. And you never, ever get XP for it. This is something that should be changed. If a soldier kills an enemy who he couldn’t see when he fired, but a covert could see, then the Covert should get 1 or 2 xp.

It can occasionally be useful for killing dug in enemies as well, for example, running into the bank and satcheling the mg42 gunners.

That hardly ever works. But if it does, you’ll get 10XP for killing them, so why did you need to get some for the disguise?

A medic could also try to kill them, by sticking himself with adrenalin and then running in with grenades. It probably won’t work, but if it does, he’ll get XP for killling. Naturally he gets no XP just for injecting the adrenalin, because that’s a performance enhancer for him. How come the Medic’s enhancer gives no XP, but the Covert’s does?

Disguised covops are REALLY EASY to spot if you get at all close to the enemy. We can only assume this is by design. To me, this supports the idea that disguise is something that enhances their other abilities, rather than an end in itself.

If its not an end, then it shouldn’t give XP. Coverts should have no motiviation to wear disguise, unless they think it will help them accomplish something else useful.

Instead we get these clueless coverts running around in disguise. Maybe they don’t know they’re XP whoring- maybe they think that sneaking around mixed in with the enemy is somehow helping their team. “I backstab someone every few minutes, I must be helping! I totally killed all the AFKs in the spawn room!” They might think they’re good players, if they have nearly as many points as anyone else.

Being in disguise for no reason can actually hurt your team, especially if you’re mixing up with the enemy (following them into battle). It’s really bad for panzerers. Suppose I’ve got a panzer and 3 enemies come around the corner. I push fire, the rocket warms up, and aim at the center of the group. But wait- one of them is a covert in disguise! Now I’ve got 2 choices: either kill all three (and maybe get complained by the covert), or cancel the rocket and try to beat 2 enemies with my pistol. If I cancel, then even if I somehow don’t die, I’ve wasted a powerbar.

CovertOps seems to be the class that attracts the most excessive number of non-helpful players. I sometimes come onto a server and see a team of 13 with 5 coverts and 0 medics. That’s just wrong. Maybe if coverts had less cheap XP available, it wouldn’t be so bad.