@bgyoshi said:
Looks like I pissed off a lot of bad Vassili mains rofl
i noticed that after i deployed the shield, they cant pick off my team and i keep taking pot shots with S&W 500 at the snipers
maybe turtle is one way of dealing with sniper as defender or even attacker
@GatoCommodore said:
i noticed that after i deployed the shield, they cant pick off my team and i keep taking pot shots with S&W 500 at the snipers
Wow how weird imagine that
Innovation
Save some for the rest of the forums, they need it more than you do man
I’ll never understand why people don’t want sniper rifles to be more punishing when you miss or bodyshot and more rewarding when you headshot, and make it harder to aim sniper and burst rifles when scoping
@bgyoshi said:
I’ll never understand why people don’t want sniper rifles to be more punishing when you miss or bodyshot and more rewarding when you headshot
This is exactly what people want, headshots are already powerful enough though.
@pumpkinmeerkat said:
This is exactly what people want, headshots are already powerful enough though.
Not according to the responses to my post 
Bolt rifle headshots should auto incap all mercs. They don’t hit Rhino or Thunder, and snipers are precisely for countering slow, high HP mercs.
@bgyoshi said:
I’ll never understand why people don’t want sniper rifles to be more punishing when you miss or bodyshot and more rewarding when you headshot, and make it harder to aim sniper and burst rifles when scoping
Because Sniper keeps getting nerfed and yet people still play him, and he’s still potent at a certain level of play. Making him harder to play isn’t going to fix the core issue, fighting against Snipers is hard in this game due to the crazy sightlines, and aim punch affecting everyone BUT Snipers. Aimpunch should be reworked to only be visual when hit while hipfiring, but aiming down sights and getting actually causes the crosshair to move a bit, making it difficult for the Sniper to land a shot under constant fire.
Bodyshotting, honestly just adding a limb damage modifier would help, a shot to the arm or legs should not be as potent as a shot to the body for example. But the other thing to is the Sniper Rifles need to do a minimum of at least 70 damage, if it was any lower, than the headshot damage would to change cause then a Fragger could take a headshot and not die, which is dumb.
I honestly feel like people focus a lot on what kills them, and expects it to be nerfed to accommodate how they play.
I freaking hate Rhino, but I don’t expect him to be nerfed just because I hate dealing with them, I adapt.
@bgyoshi said:
Bolt rifle headshots should auto incap all mercs.
Body shot damage is too high, head shot damage is fine IMO.
Many different ideas have been discussed and hopefully SD has plenty of their own. Just tired of waiting for SD to act on issues that have been frustrating players for months.
@watsyurdeal said:
Aimpunch should be reworked to only be visual when hit while hipfiring, but aiming down sights and getting actually causes the crosshair to move a bit, making it difficult for the Sniper to land a shot under constant fire.
Scope wobble fixes that. The scope will never be steady even at rest, and under fire the scope wobble will increase based on the proximity of the shot. Even if it doesn’t hit you, but hits closer to you, the scope wobble will worsen.
@watsyurdeal said:
Bodyshotting, honestly just adding a limb damage modifier would help, a shot to the arm or legs should not be as potent as a shot to the body for example.
That would require too much reworking and bolt rifle bullets penetrate, so shots to the arm or leg from the front or side will still take bodyshot damage anyway. In either case, this is getting way too specific with REALISM which we aren’t really going for I guess.
@watsyurdeal said:
I freaking hate Rhino, but I don’t expect him to be nerfed just because I hate dealing with them, I adapt.
Rhino doesn’t need a nerf, headshots just need to be reworked. Headshots should always kill everything, but getting them shouldn’t be as trivial as it is currently.
@pumpkinmeerkat said:
Body shot damage is too high, head shot damage is fine IMO.
Damage per shot is fine, DPS is too high. Both the FE-LIX and MOA have a rate of fire that’s way too fast. If you lower the rate of fire, you’ll stop complaining about body shot damage being too high.
@bgyoshi said:
Damage per shot is fine, DPS is too high. Both the FE-LIX and MOA have a rate of fire that’s way too fast. If you lower the rate of fire, you’ll stop complaining about body shot damage being too high.
DPS…is too high???
It’s 75 damage with the moa, with a rate of fire of 1200 ms, meaning you literally only fire 1 shot per second. In that same time, the M4 does 140 damage before fall off applies.
So…work on your math
Cause it really just seems you like want Snipers removed, or make them not even worth playing.
@bgyoshi said:
Damage per shot is fine, DPS is too high. Both the FE-LIX and MOA have a rate of fire that’s way too fast. If you lower the rate of fire, you’ll stop complaining about body shot damage being too high.
No. Can land one body shot and switch to revolver. Better argument for one of the many sniper discussions on this forum anyways…
Again, plenty of changes can be made and snipers aren’t the only thing in need of balancing.
@watsyurdeal said:
@bgyoshi said:
I’ll never understand why people don’t want sniper rifles to be more punishing when you miss or bodyshot and more rewarding when you headshot, and make it harder to aim sniper and burst rifles when scopingBecause Sniper keeps getting nerfed and yet people still play him, and he’s still potent at a certain level of play. Making him harder to play isn’t going to fix the core issue, fighting against Snipers is hard in this game due to the crazy sightlines, and aim punch affecting everyone BUT Snipers. Aimpunch should be reworked to only be visual when hit while hipfiring, but aiming down sights and getting actually causes the crosshair to move a bit, making it difficult for the Sniper to land a shot under constant fire.
Bodyshotting, honestly just adding a limb damage modifier would help, a shot to the arm or legs should not be as potent as a shot to the body for example. But the other thing to is the Sniper Rifles need to do a minimum of at least 70 damage, if it was any lower, than the headshot damage would to change cause then a Fragger could take a headshot and not die, which is dumb.
I honestly feel like people focus a lot on what kills them, and expects it to be nerfed to accommodate how they play.
I freaking hate Rhino, but I don’t expect him to be nerfed just because I hate dealing with them, I adapt.
snipers keep getting buffed despite being broken already you mean?
@watsyurdeal said:
Bodyshotting, honestly just adding a limb damage modifier would help, a shot to the arm or legs should not be as potent as a shot to the body for example.
Arm damage sounds pretty crappy tbh. Don’t want to get inconsistent damage on the torso because of someone flailing their arms about in front of them while they shoot at me.
@ostmustis said:
@watsyurdeal said:
@bgyoshi said:
I’ll never understand why people don’t want sniper rifles to be more punishing when you miss or bodyshot and more rewarding when you headshot, and make it harder to aim sniper and burst rifles when scopingBecause Sniper keeps getting nerfed and yet people still play him, and he’s still potent at a certain level of play. Making him harder to play isn’t going to fix the core issue, fighting against Snipers is hard in this game due to the crazy sightlines, and aim punch affecting everyone BUT Snipers. Aimpunch should be reworked to only be visual when hit while hipfiring, but aiming down sights and getting actually causes the crosshair to move a bit, making it difficult for the Sniper to land a shot under constant fire.
Bodyshotting, honestly just adding a limb damage modifier would help, a shot to the arm or legs should not be as potent as a shot to the body for example. But the other thing to is the Sniper Rifles need to do a minimum of at least 70 damage, if it was any lower, than the headshot damage would to change cause then a Fragger could take a headshot and not die, which is dumb.
I honestly feel like people focus a lot on what kills them, and expects it to be nerfed to accommodate how they play.
I freaking hate Rhino, but I don’t expect him to be nerfed just because I hate dealing with them, I adapt.
snipers keep getting buffed despite being broken already you mean?
The only buff Vasilli got was 110 hp, and that was after losing insta gib on headshot under all circumstances. Which was a pretty major nerf.
I’d hardly call a rof change a buff, since ypu still only deal 75 damage a second with the moa.
@GatoCommodore said:
@SatanicUnicorn said:
@watsyurdeal said:
I see no reason Thunder’s health shouldn’t be nerfed to 150, makes him less bullshit to fight, and allows you to close the distance faster on people you concussed from afar, so you can kill them before it wears off.Beyond that, I am more interested in seeing if they change Red Eye, so people stop complaining when I play him.
Really? I find red-eye to be UNDER powered, I mean sure you get a disadvantage when fighting him in front of his smoke, but once he shoots at you, basically fair game
-Red Eye
-Underpowered
choose one and only one
I really don’t see the problem with him, he’s very easy to deal with. Any merc I play, I can decimate red-eye with. Maybe you’re just bad, or inexperienced against him.
You should play against a decent RedEye then.
Not only is he able to use the Grandeur which is an incredible strong gun but he is also basically invisible in his smoke making it that much harder to fight him.
@Kirays said:
You should play against a decent RedEye then.Not only is he able to use the Grandeur which is an incredible strong gun but he is also basically invisible in his smoke making it that much harder to fight him.
That’s why we have arsonry, or a second Redbull.
@watsyurdeal said:
DPS…is too high???
It’s 75 damage with the moa, with a rate of fire of 1200 ms, meaning you literally only fire 1 shot per second. In that same time, the M4 does 140 damage before fall off applies.
Yes in a pure vacuum at 100% accuracy, M4 is a god weapon by comparison
Speaking of math
The average accuracy with assault rifles is around 34%. Vacuum DPS of a 100% bodyshot M4 is 124.8; accounting for the fact that nobody has 100% accuracy, that brings the average DPS to 42.43, so it’ll take about 2 seconds to kill a full HP merc. This is only worsened at long distance.
MOA bodyshots are 75, FE-LIX are 79. Average accuracy with sniper rifles is 50-ish %. Unshockingly, that brings the DPS to 37.5 and 39, however:
MOA has 50 RPM, meaning one shot every 1.2 seconds. So if you fire, 1.2 seconds is the fastest you could fire again. So you get 2 shots in 1.2 seconds (fire, reload, fire). In that amount of time, the M4 in a vacuum does 149.76 damage. 2 vacuum body shots is 150 and 158 damage respectively. Considering the 34% accuracy, that means most opportunities will lead to 50 damage with the M4, not 149. With 50% accuracy on sniper rifles, each 1.2 seconds will be around 75 or 79 damage, not 150. Not to mention, sniper rifles don’t have fall off.
If we have a chance for 3 shots, that’s 2.4 seconds. Average M4 would be about 101 damage, average sniper rifle would be 112 damage.
That’s the problem with sniper rifles. The “DPS” is too high when you account for player accuracy. It drops off fast over time and can’t compete over a full minute, but the initial burst of damage from your first 2 or 3 shots is too high. Considering how far away most of your targets are, that means the risk from missing all of your shots is low, since you can retreat behind cover or catch up with your team instead. Unlike with assault weapons, where you’re usually within feet of the target and can’t really retreat without being shot from behind.
Think of it as if the RPM was cut nearly in half and damage was left alone, though.
We’ll say 35 RPM for the MOA, or 1.7 seconds per shot. That means in any 1.7 seconds, average M4 damage is 72.13, and average MOA damage is 75. That looks a little more even. However, that means the bolt rifle DPS is cut to 43.75
@watsyurdeal said:
So…work on your math
Happy?
@bgyoshi said:
Post is literally just above here, not going to add all that clutter@watsyurdeal said:
So…work on your math
Happy?
Yes I am, but your argument of the burst damage being too high is also the whole point of the gun, if it did not have that it would be relatively useless. If you nerf bodyshotting but super buff headshots, you basically would ONLY be nerfing people who bodyshot alll the time or occasionally. So a sniper who basically always gets headshots is the only thing you can have on your team, everything else would be even MORE detrimental to the team than they already are. And that’s not good for the game as a whole.
Plus even that argument of the burst damage being too high is faulty here as well, as 75 damage is not enough to kill even Aura, at best I’d say nerf the moa to 70 damage since that is as high as it needs to be to kill Fragger in one headshot. But I imagine that would still be too much for some of you.
So my counter argument then, is rather than nerfing sniper’s raw ability to deal damage, you buff the way in which one can deal with and counter snipers. So, having aimpunch apply more to those who are scoped in or using sights. This way suppressing fire on a sniper increases the likelihood they are to miss.
That and nerfing Vasillis hp back to 100
@watsyurdeal said:
Yes I am, but your argument of the burst damage being too high is also the whole point of the gun, if it did not have that it would be relatively useless. If you nerf bodyshotting but super buff headshots, you basically would ONLY be nerfing people who bodyshot alll the time or occasionally.
But…that’s precisely how a sniper is supposed to work. That’s part of why fast mercs have low HP, they’re hard to hit. The sniper’s job is to get headshots as it’s a 1 shot kill, and you get punished for missing. Bodyshot only snipers will have to learn to headshot to get better, or quit and find another class to play. Headshot snipers will be more invaluable than they already are, and be a hard counter to slow, high HP mercs.
The point of an FPS sniper isn’t to frontload more damage than any class, it’s access to the 1 hit headshot at the cost of being relatively useless when you miss.
@watsyurdeal said:
Plus even that argument of the burst damage being too high is faulty here as well, as 75 damage is not enough to kill even Aura, at best I’d say nerf the moa to 70 damage since that is as high as it needs to be to kill Fragger in one headshot. But I imagine that would still be too much for some of you.
Why nerf it at all if the argument that burst damage being too high is faulty? Besides, it’s kind of the point that you can’t one shot an Aura in the body, you have to go for the head, which makes fast mercs more viable against snipers. But that’s already meta, and just fine as is.
@watsyurdeal said:
So my counter argument then, is rather than nerfing sniper’s raw ability to deal damage, you buff the way in which one can deal with and counter snipers.
Hence the scope wobble, further increasing the difficulty to aim. We’re on the same page about suppressing fire, already.
@watsyurdeal said:
That and nerfing Vasillis hp back to 100
Sure, whatever. In almost 200 hours of just Vasilli, I don’t think I’ve ever been under 10 HP and not dead or immediately killed.
@bgyoshi said:
But…that’s precisely how a sniper is supposed to work. That’s part of why fast mercs have low HP, they’re hard to hit. The sniper’s job is to get headshots as it’s a 1 shot kill, and you get punished for missing. Bodyshot only snipers will have to learn to headshot to get better, or quit and find another class to play. Headshot snipers will be more invaluable than they already are, and be a hard counter to slow, high HP mercs.
I disagree, making it so a class is basically only good if you’re already good to begin with means every time someone picks him it’s a detriment to your team. What I am concerned with is by nerfing Vasilli like this, it will not stop people from playing him and then their team has to put up with it Ranked and Pubs. He needs to be at lease somewhat viable at the base level. What the likely solution here is to change the Moa to be the gun you described, but the Felix stays the bodyshot king so these new players still have something accessible.
The point of an FPS sniper isn’t to frontload more damage than any class, it’s access to the 1 hit headshot at the cost of being relatively useless when you miss.
Yes, it is, but the problem with that is that it doesn’t only affect you, it affects your whole team when you’re relatively useless. So that’s not exactly helping the team work together.
@bgyoshi said:
Why nerf it at all if the argument that burst damage being too high is faulty? Besides, it’s kind of the point that you can’t one shot an Aura in the body, you have to go for the head, which makes fast mercs more viable against snipers. But that’s already meta, and just fine as is.
Just to get the point across that is the lowest we can nerf the MoA without messing with headshot damage, and if we mess with it for one weapon then we have to for others. And plenty of people on here have expressed the opinion of not doing that, despite my disagreement with it. That was my fix for the Grandeur to be honest.
@bgyoshi said:
Hence the scope wobble, further increasing the difficulty to aim. We’re on the same page about suppressing fire, already.
When you say scope wobble, do you mean
Cause I am only referring to the last one, I don’t like the rest.
The way I see it, the way to fix this is as follows.
MoA
Felix
Vasilli
Aimpunch
That’s how I would go about it, but the ways you were describing sounds like making Sniper basically pointless to play unless you already know how to play Sniper in Dirty Bomb. Which makes no sense, cause nobody starts out that way.
@watsyurdeal said:
I disagree, making it so a class is basically only good if you’re already good to begin with means every time someone picks him it’s a detriment to your team.
Then we can just disagree, your concern is one I don’t have anyway and consider pubs for. Pubs for learning, Ranked for playing. But Ranked is a different problem anyway
@watsyurdeal said:
When you say scope wobble, do you mean
- Scope sway when moving back and forth
Yes
- Scope sway standing still
Yes. Although, it sways until you’ve stood still for about half a second, to cut down on close-range quick scope kills
- Aimpunch causing the scope to move when you are hit
Yes
Cause I am only referring to the last one, I don’t like the rest.
All of them help solidify the sniper as a long range only class, with the downside that you disagree with. Which is fine
@watsyurdeal said:
MoA
- Nerf bodyshot damage to 55-60
- Increase headshot damage so that headshots are 140 damage
Current headshot damage is 150 with the MOA, this would be a strict nerf
I don’t think I’d ever go lower than 65 damage for a body shot. You should still be able to one shot fast mercs that aren’t at full HP, but above 50%. Going down into the 50s is creeping up on making heavy classes immune to snipers at all
@watsyurdeal said:
Which makes no sense, cause nobody starts out that way.
Precisely. Practice makes perfect.
