Anyone else not liking the new respawn times?

(Karma_Police) #1

It’s just too long now. I mostly play medic so people don’t have to be dead for so long in a fast game, but when I die and don’t get to be revived, wow. In the old times, 24s respawn time was unlucky and frustrating, but boy is the 29s something else to have! This experience of being able to run at high speeds, wall jump, bang bang, then die for 30 full seconds. I died defending bridge, and the enemy had the time to finish escort the EV and steal the first drug sample during my death. There must be a better solution. Am I the only one in this?

(Naonna) #2

There isn’t a better solution at the moment: if you set the spawn times equal, defenders have a significant advantage - requiring attackers to completely kill every member just to get near an objective for more than a few seconds.

(cordovanJive) #3

I’m not sureally I agree. Tf2 has equal spawn timers and they have no real significant issues. I think there needs to be some better map balancing.

(Mr-Penguin) #4

I hated it at first, but then I got used to it.

And if it’s really a problem, then don’t play in 8v8 servers.

(doxjq) #5

[quote=“derpypenguinz19;120599”]I hated it at first, but then I got used to it.

And if it’s really a problem, then don’t play in 8v8 servers.[/quote]

This.

8v8 is kind of dumb any way. 6v6 is borderline even. 7v7 only if I have to.

(Litego) #6

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.

(XavienX) #7

It is pretty frustrating since half a minute is honestly a REALLY REALLY long time in like a 5 minute time span but it’s for balancing issues. ._.

(fubar) #8

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything.

(Dawnlazy) #9

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything. [/quote]

What? It adds strategic depth to the gameplay since you can time their pushes, know if you put one of them on longspawn and so on, in fact de-synched timers is one of the reasons why I dislike Objective mode compared to Stopwatch.

(fubar) #10

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything. [/quote]

What? It adds strategic depth to the gameplay since you can time their pushes, know if you put one of them on longspawn and so on, in fact de-synched timers is one of the reasons why I dislike Objective mode compared to Stopwatch.[/quote]

The problem isn’t the intervals or spawntimes in itself but much rather the fact that they’re synced, the punish rather than reward attackers which dulls down the game. RtCW/ET/Dystopia and countless of other stopwatch based games with spawnwaves that had randomized offsets worked out far better than DB does. I’ve talked about this plenty of times before, if you’re interested feel free to go through my topic history for the feedback post I made, it’s in there - somewhere. Not very interested in writing up another huge rant on it :stuck_out_tongue:

(Dawnlazy) #11

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything. [/quote]

What? It adds strategic depth to the gameplay since you can time their pushes, know if you put one of them on longspawn and so on, in fact de-synched timers is one of the reasons why I dislike Objective mode compared to Stopwatch.[/quote]

The problem isn’t the intervals or spawntimes in itself but much rather the fact that they’re synced, the punish rather than reward attackers which dulls down the game. RtCW/ET/Dystopia and countless of other stopwatch based games with spawnwaves that had randomized offsets worked out far better than DB does. I’ve talked about this plenty of times before, if you’re interested feel free to go through my topic history for the feedback post I made, it’s in there - somewhere. Not very interested in writing up another huge rant on it :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

I just don’t like RNG to be a factor. Obj drives me crazy sometimes, like if the whole enemy team is wiped but you don’t know if it’s safe or not to deliver the milk jugs because they might be spawning now or at 15 seconds later. I don’t have any experience with ET or other SD games but I find SW to be a far more sophisticated game mode than Obj.

(fubar) #12

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything. [/quote]

What? It adds strategic depth to the gameplay since you can time their pushes, know if you put one of them on longspawn and so on, in fact de-synched timers is one of the reasons why I dislike Objective mode compared to Stopwatch.[/quote]

The problem isn’t the intervals or spawntimes in itself but much rather the fact that they’re synced, the punish rather than reward attackers which dulls down the game. RtCW/ET/Dystopia and countless of other stopwatch based games with spawnwaves that had randomized offsets worked out far better than DB does. I’ve talked about this plenty of times before, if you’re interested feel free to go through my topic history for the feedback post I made, it’s in there - somewhere. Not very interested in writing up another huge rant on it :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

I just don’t like RNG to be a factor. Obj drives me crazy sometimes, like if the whole enemy team is wiped but you don’t know if it’s safe or not to deliver the milk jugs because they might be spawning now or at 15 seconds later. I don’t have any experience with ET or other SD games but I find SW to be a far more sophisticated game mode than Obj.[/quote]

Again. It’s NOT the intervals. The Intervals stay the same, it’s still 25 seconds for both teams. There’s just an OFFSET in between, possibly, preventing the two teams from ALWAYS - predictably - spawning at the SAME time. You can still count, you can still keep track of time, you will still know when someone is on long spawn or not. This is nothing like Objective mode upon which every spawninterval is different for every stage and influenced by amount of players.

The stopwatch mode is based upon RtCWs, which had it right 14 years ago. Why butcher a perfectly working and fine system? For simpleness. They believe that keeping track of 20, 25 or 30 second intervals is equal to rocket science and not accomplish-able by your casual player.
Every game becomes all about timing in one way or another, to use it as most efficiently and beneficially as one can. DB prevents you from doing that in the way that spawns work bundled with the map design. SW without Attacker bias becomes very dull, very slow, very impassive. An offset allows for much more dynamical play - all the while preserving the strategical aspect of it. All it does is raise the skill ceiling by introducing the ability of keeping track of spawntimes.

(watsyurdeal) #13

Like others have said, the spawn timer is fine, the maps are the problem though. Not only are they not built for 8v8, they are also heavily defender sided for the most part. Literally the only reason you should lose on defense is incompetence.

(Dawnlazy) #14

The map balance is fine, they’re just not built for 8vs8.[/quote]

Maps are rather bad, to be completely honest. 8vs8 aside, the spawntimes in stopwatch (25 synced) are one of the biggest contributors to the very dull and boring gameplay. We, many of the competitive scene, have been complaining about it for ages now. We’ll just have to see if they ever do anything about it.

The problem with DB is that they’re trying to - so painfully - keep everything ridiculously simplistic to the point where it damages the game more than anything. [/quote]

What? It adds strategic depth to the gameplay since you can time their pushes, know if you put one of them on longspawn and so on, in fact de-synched timers is one of the reasons why I dislike Objective mode compared to Stopwatch.[/quote]

The problem isn’t the intervals or spawntimes in itself but much rather the fact that they’re synced, the punish rather than reward attackers which dulls down the game. RtCW/ET/Dystopia and countless of other stopwatch based games with spawnwaves that had randomized offsets worked out far better than DB does. I’ve talked about this plenty of times before, if you’re interested feel free to go through my topic history for the feedback post I made, it’s in there - somewhere. Not very interested in writing up another huge rant on it :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

I just don’t like RNG to be a factor. Obj drives me crazy sometimes, like if the whole enemy team is wiped but you don’t know if it’s safe or not to deliver the milk jugs because they might be spawning now or at 15 seconds later. I don’t have any experience with ET or other SD games but I find SW to be a far more sophisticated game mode than Obj.[/quote]

Again. It’s NOT the intervals. The Intervals stay the same, it’s still 25 seconds for both teams. There’s just an OFFSET in between, possibly, preventing the two teams from ALWAYS - predictably - spawning at the SAME time. You can still count, you can still keep track of time, you will still know when someone is on long spawn or not. This is nothing like Objective mode upon which every spawninterval is different for every stage and influenced by amount of players.

The stopwatch mode is based upon RtCWs, which had it right 14 years ago. Why butcher a perfectly working and fine system? For simpleness. They believe that keeping track of 20, 25 or 30 second intervals is equal to rocket science and not accomplish-able by your casual player.
Every game becomes all about timing in one way or another, to use it as most efficiently and beneficially as one can. DB prevents you from doing that in the way that spawns work bundled with the map design. SW without Attacker bias becomes very dull, very slow, very impassive. An offset allows for much more dynamical play - all the while preserving the strategical aspect of it. All it does is raise the skill ceiling by introducing the ability of keeping track of spawntimes. [/quote]

But you just said that the offsets were randomized in the previous post. Are they random or not after all?

(fubar) #15

[quote=“Dawnrazor;120662”]
But you just said that the offsets were randomized in the previous post. Are they random or not after all?[/quote]

There’s really nothing “RNG” about it, it’s predictable, controllable and abuseable. The offset doesn’t keep on changing. It’s static, it’s only random on the very first spawn of the game and sticks to that exact value through out the remainder. This is very simply done by spawning in the Attackers with 6 seconds left on their wavetimer and Defenders with say… 11 seconds - on the very first spawn.
Which is already randomized and is in between 1-25 for both teams and has absolutely no further outcome on the game, other than the decision of whether or not you’re going to push or delay on the first wave. That 5 second offset will be a static value through the entire game.

I made an gimmicky example gif for my feedback post, maybe this helps you:
http://i.imgur.com/REoMlek.gif

Pay attention, gathering information on spawntimes is a vital aspect and usually never takes more than 2 spawns anyway (on the other hand, providing, intentional, false information to your opponent by delaying a push or pushing overtly aggressive early, becomes a thing for the first few spawns too! moar depth!). Rarely ever do you go more than a minute, in RtCW/ET, without having figured out your opponents spawntime. From then on it’s just keeping track of it. Which, makes the system work. You can accurately judge attacker spawntimes by when they reach certain chokepoints (ie: bridge first stage, attackers reach the bridge roughly 7-8 seconds after their spawn. Bam, I now know their exact spawn and keep track of it for the rest of the game) or defenders pushing and selfkilling (part of gathering/scouting info or delaying pushes): Bam, I now know their exact spawn and keep track of it for the rest of the game.

I really urge you to read up on ET or watch a few shoutcasts, you seem to be really frightened of by having to time something. You have the same in Quake (keeping track of RA (25s) Mega (35s) and both RY (2 * 25s)).

(SereneFlight) #16

Hated it until I realized that now I have more time to read the book I was supposed to read… and maybe learn another language.

(MarsRover) #17

Making spawn timers dependent on team size is nice, I have no problems with that.

I have played a lot on 8v8 servers after this change and I don’t like it. 30s timer is not fun. It’s not enough to affect gameplay - the matches are still a tug-of-war thing. There’s always someone alive. To change that the timer would have to be set at something like 40, which obviously can’t be done due to EV speed, C4 timer etc. The only thing that this new timer succeeds is annoying people when they get caught on long spawn.

6v6, 7v7 - no complaints. But 8v8 will always be a clusterf**k.

(Lumi) #18

I actually think the new spawn times are way better. Sucks when you play 8vs8, but I never wander off 6vs6 anyway and for anything under that it’s really a blessing.

Start a game and almost everyone leaves, being stuck in a 1vs1? Well, no worries! You’ll be spawning every 3 seconds.

Are stuck in a 6vs6 with a newcomer that doesn’t know the map and is dragging the server down with a 300ping or more? Kick him and the added spawn time reduction for being in a 5vs6 will actually help!

Definitely an improvement imo, but it still doesn’t fix 3vs6 type of imbalanced games. We need another system to address that.

(Dirmagnos) #19

Id prefer personalized timers based on merc surviving duration.
The longer merc stays alive the longer it takes him to respawn, with upper limit, let say, of 30 seconds.
But if its a campfeast or play just dies real fast they he could have spawn timer as low as 5 seconds.
Something along the lines of first 30 seconds are “free” with spawn timers being on 5 seconds, then it starts gaining an additional second for every 10 seconds player is alive. Revival halves that duration.

(LifeupOmega) #20

TF2 had attacker bias spawn timers unless we’re talking symmetrical maps.

TF2’s spawn timers are also very different to DB’s, there’s no wave system in TF2.