Any plans for DRM on this game?

(Apoc) #41

Is it just me thinking this, or are the people who download cracked games in a minority (compared to number of people who buy it normally), im not saying not to put any anti-cracking protection on the game, but just not too much that it hinders game performance

(DoubleDigit) #42

What kinda of rock do you live under? DRM does NOT prevent piracy. Pirated copies have all the DRM checks removed. And that is from day one the game is launched so stop talking nonsense.

(DarkangelUK) #43

At what point did i say it prevented it? It’s there to be a deterrent to try and stop people ripping it in the 1st place… that’s the whole bloody point of the thing. Do some research before spouting some off the top of your head nonsense.

DRM technologies attempt to control use of digital media by preventing access, copying or conversion to other formats by end users

Of course the DRM is removed in pirated copies, what’s the bloody point in releasing pirated games with DRM in it!

(Jamieson) #44

The problem is that DRM is not an effective deterrent. In my opinion I think it encourages piracy to a degree as crackers see it as a challenge.

Company “yes we have the most advanced anti piracy measures”

Might as well have a big illuminated sign saying “yes we challange you to crack our product”

They do it just to show they can and that no matter what measures you take they will always find a way to get it.

There is no point wasting resources on pirates there never going to pay for the game and they never were, so just take them out of the equation.

(DarkangelUK) #45

I think the deterrent is more for the simple users who don’t know how to do much else beyond copy a CD, it obviously takes a lot of knowledge to crack and remove DRM. If that wasn’t required, then any Tom, Dick and Harry could copy the disc and give it to their m8s, or rip it and upload it to some torrent site.

(Senethro) #46

[QUOTE=Senethro;207661]You guys can spout your anti-DRM talking points to each other ad nauseum but it will change little. DRM makes sense for some products. Not for small indie or low budget titles as it’ll cost more than is recouped from preventing lost sales, but for AAA products it makes sense. Bioshock’s securom went uncracked for 9 or 11 days, I forget which. Given the scale of the release and that most of the units sold will be in the first two weeks, DRM was a success in this case. It doens’t have to remain uncracked for all time, just long enough to make the people on the edge of buying it to fork over their cash. The rest either can’t or never would buy it anyway. No loss.

As long as its well QAed, DRM will only annoy the hardcore audience and the casual won’t even notice it. The hardcore audience are already massive pirates and can’t be stopped. The casual audience doesn’t really understand the alternatives. (Check out all the comments on TPB about “how do I open .rar file”, “whats daemontools”.) The hardcore audience is also irrelevent on the budget sheet due to their small size.

If Brink has online authentication for multiplayer, and does it better than MW2 did, then it probably wouldn’t make sense to have a very expensive/invasive DRM placed upon it. But I suspect it’ll be up to Bethesda to make the call.[/QUOTE]

quotin my post because noone reads the bottom of the page

(Shiv) #47

i liked how quakewars did it.
Lan friendly, online needs key. yes!

(Stroggafier) #48

@Senethro, as you mentioned, there is a huge bump in purchases at the front of any release. The key is “Purchases” ie paying customers. You are suggesting that people will not wait even 11 days for a crack and that some would-be pirates are transformed into purchasers. Well, this is exactly what does NOT happen. (although 11 days seems way-extreme for crackers to wait) SecurRom type DRM does not increase sales during the early stages, middle stages or late stages of the sales cycle. It was this discovery that tipped the removal of DRM from the mindset of several companies (as per a link in one of the earlier posts). Apple, as you may know, removed this type of DRM about a year ago - and behold - no change in sales.

Early DRM stats said that about 2% of potential purchasers will be pissed at the DRM , about 38% will dislike but be resigned, and the rest (60%) will be tolerant. (Please note these stats were assembled by early proponents of DRM) There is an ongoing survey by a well-known UK law firm that tracks these stats and trends annually, as the stats/attitudes vary year by year. The more recent trend, unfortunately for proponents, is towards greater in-tolerance of DRM.

The amount of piracy seems to vary by country and by type of software. Even proponents of DRM agree that pirates make up between 1%-3% on most titles in countries of the west and Europe, and not the excessive early estimates of (6% - 30%). In some Asian countries about 20%+ on some (MS) products, and about 10%+/- for other products of users may be using pirated copies. Recent studies of Asian consumers is showing education (propaganda) to be a better tool for fighting piracy than is DRM software.

(DoubleDigit) #49

Well, in the end if the publisher finds it imperative to have a crappy DRM disc check, I hope on steam and other digital platforms there will no additional DRM. Otherwise, I say bye bye Brink.

(Senethro) #50

[QUOTE=Stroggafier;207715]@Senethro, as you mentioned, there is a huge bump in purchases at the front of any release. The key is “Purchases” ie paying customers. You are suggesting that people will not wait even 11 days for a crack and that some would-be pirates are transformed into purchasers. Well, this is exactly what does NOT happen. (although 11 days seems way-extreme for crackers to wait) SecurRom type DRM does not increase sales during the early stages, middle stages or late stages of the sales cycle. It was this discovery that tipped the removal of DRM from the mindset of several companies (as per a link in one of the earlier posts). Apple, as you may know, removed this type of DRM about a year ago - and behold - no change in sales.

Early DRM stats said that about 2% of potential purchasers will be pissed at the DRM , about 38% will dislike but be resigned, and the rest (60%) will be tolerant. (Please note these stats were assembled by early proponents of DRM) There is an ongoing survey by a well-known UK law firm that tracks these stats and trends annually, as the stats/attitudes vary year by year. The more recent trend, unfortunately for proponents, is towards greater in-tolerance of DRM.

The amount of piracy seems to vary by country and by type of software. Even proponents of DRM agree that pirates make up between 1%-3% on most titles in countries of the west and Europe, and not the excessive early estimates of (6% - 30%). In some Asian countries about 20%+ on some (MS) products, and about 10%+/- for other products of users may be using pirated copies. Recent studies of Asian consumers is showing education (propaganda) to be a better tool for fighting piracy than is DRM software.[/QUOTE]

Those look like some interesting numbers. Where you getting them from?

(Senethro) #51

THanks for sharing your opinion, but you know that not even being willing to tolerate a disc check puts you in such an extreme minority position that you’re just going to get ignored?

(Wolfmeister) #52

I dont know much about todays DRM:s but if theyre giving the pirates an easier install and better gaming experience than those that buy the game, like in Spores case, somethings very wrong.

(DoubleDigit) #53

Seen a Bethesda guy around the forums, maybe he can shed some light over this issue? :rolleyes:

(SockDog) #54

I’ll avoid my usual Great Wall of Rant on this subject and just repeat the following thought.

Valve has the right philosophy. Offer your customer base what it wants rather than expecting your customer base to accept what you are prepared to give them. Publishers are competing against piracy as a service, it’s about time they accepted that rather than living in denial and trying to ignore piracy with ever more intrusive DRM.

(Ryan) #55

[QUOTE=SockDog;209248]I’ll avoid my usual Great Wall of Rant on this subject and just repeat the following thought.

Valve has the right philosophy. Offer your customer base what it wants rather than expecting your customer base to accept what you are prepared to give them. Publishers are competing against piracy as a service, it’s about time they accepted that rather than living in denial and trying to ignore piracy with ever more intrusive DRM.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s more of a way to tell the community they don’t like people pirating their games.
Cause if they stop to try and “prevent” it, people might think the developers dont even care if u actually buy the game or download a cracked version.

Offcourse, instead of such program, (DMZ? or whatever its called) they could maybe add a statement of gratitude that u bought the game :wink:

(DoubleDigit) #56

Well, I will not be playing BFBC2.
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2010/01/26/BFBC2-PC-Copy-Protection.aspx
Aparently they think that having securom over steam is very funny.

(zXSwordXz) #57

I see UBI will be making a version that require internet connection and as long as you have a UBI account you can install it on as many computer as you like and the save games will be store on their server. Not sure how that will work out.

(darthmob) #58

[QUOTE=DoubleDigit;209393]Well, I will not be playing BFBC2.
http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2010/01/26/BFBC2-PC-Copy-Protection.aspx
Aparently they think that having securom over steam is very funny.[/QUOTE]On the other hand it’s a rather lax use of DRM. 10 parallel SP installations and revoke on uninstall. I would prefer that over Steam. It’s not like anyone forces you to buy the Steam version. :slight_smile:

(SockDog) #59

[quote=Ryan;209368]I think it’s more of a way to tell the community they don’t like people pirating their games.
Cause if they stop to try and “prevent” it, people might think the developers dont even care if u actually buy the game or download a cracked version.[/quote]

The pirates don’t give a sh*t and I doubt legit customers appreciate (even if they tolerate) being treating like criminals. To me these made DRM schemes seem to be solely for management level people to feel they are addressing some accounting issue in their books.

Offcourse, instead of such program, (DMZ? or whatever its called) they could maybe add a statement of gratitude that u bought the game :wink:

Well this is what I mean by positive DRM. Give your customers something they want and reward their honesty rather than punish them. Invest money in offering a loyalty card system for buying games rather than on DRM that does little to grow sales. Offer sales on Steam at 50% off to capture the people who genuinely can’t afford $50 on a new game every few weeks.

All I see them doing is hitting the piracy issue with ever bigger and bigger sticks and ultimately end up with customer collateral damage as a result.

To be honest I think their more resigned to using the PC as a testbed for means to control the used game market than any real attempt to increase profits. Then again there is no accounting for sheer stupidity in upper management.

(Ryan) #60

I don’t like third party programs to run a game I bought :confused:
What’s wrong with how ET:QW did it?