Any plans for DRM on this game?

(Stroggafier) #21

Its a sensitive issue, especially in countries that have laws against cracking, like the USA. Luckily countries such as Canada, Germany, most of Eastern Europe, (and maybe Finland) have no such restrictions.

Its a pity that companies are forced into using copy protection as a way of showing they have taken some measures to protect their rights and these techniques are being applied as a result, even though they know it does not really offer any protection.

One way that companies are protecting their product without resorting to such offensive software, is to release a slightly incomplete version, then immediately offer a repair/upgrade online, but only to those with a valid and registered purchase key (similar to MS Windows verification)

(DoubleDigit) #22

Myths and other false propaganda. Crackers do release patches for their cracks. Do support upcoming official patches and addons. As a matter of fact Ubisoft coded a crash if the copy protection detected a pirated copy. Guess what, reviewers and word of mouth spread the rumor that the game was unstable. It was true only for the pirated version but somehow people thought the legal one was having this issue too. So this backfired greatly. Even so, following cracks fixed that issue too.

Now Batman Arkham Asylum brags about something similar like it’s the end of pirating. They disable the glider in the pirated version. Crackers fixed that too.

Thinking of multiplayer games escaping this? No, there are cracks for the server versions of the game to allow players without legal copies, hell there are even World of warcraft server emulators out there even.

And guess what, pirated versions have securom/starforce crap removed from day one. So how in the world can you say they protect anything?

(Jamieson) #23

To be honest im not a big fan of DRM of any sort. If pirates want to get access to a game they will, while legal users have to put up with the crap that comes with it.

The industry is going about this the wrong way. The more measures you enforce to stop pirating the more determiend they will become, and in the meantime your just pisssing off the rest of us.

If legal customers start to see they are getting the rough end of the stick then pirating is going to look more appealing, therefore you make the problem worse.

You don’t stop pirating by annoying legal customers with DRM.
You don’t stop pirating by raising prices. Looks at IW and Activision Blizzard…
You don’t stop pirating by removing dedicated servers (which was supposed to stop piracy) MW2 was the most pirated game of 2009. IW pissed people off so much that they could not justify spending the money on a crap game so people just pirated it for the single player which i ’ am told was only 6hours long at most.

You can increase sales by Realeasing a Demo on PC and trials on Consoles etc. If people can see the game and play it then depending on the quality of the product they may well just be tempted to purchase it.

To stop pirating you need to educate people and change their attitudes towards the problem. You also need to convince consumers that the product is worth purchasing.

(DoubleDigit) #24

Exactly, developers need to understand that there are people who will never pay for software. No matter what how hard copy protection is. But if that copy protection only makes life hard for people who actually pay for the game…

On the other hand, wasting money on stuff that doesn’t do anything to help protect the software you might actually want to spend those resources on making the game better.

There are things that pirated games cannot guarantee. Let’s go back to the World of warcraft server emulators. They are so full of bugs and issues, playing on one instead of playing the legal version is a major difference. But people do play on them. Sure, Blizzard will not be able to convince everybody to start paying for the game but they do get some of those players with the help of the 14 days trial version. Once anyone got a taste of the real thing there’s no going back. This is a better way to approach piracy, instead of installing rootkits and whatever 3rd party software that in the end are a privacy issue.

So do put character stats and ranks and track player’s progress when playing online. In other words, offer players server unlock-able stuff that pirates cannot guarantee, or even if they can for some server, players will be stuck using only those servers.

And in case you don’t believe a game without copy protection on DVD can ever sell one copy: here’s a link to a post of the CEO of Stardock and read what he said about it. And this game had major connectivity issues for ONLY legit players, but with constant updates and being open about the problem, they managed to save the situation.

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/349758

(Stroggafier) #25

Absolutely agree. Everything I’ve read and personally experienced suggests;

Drakonian copy protection is misguided and fueled by ignorance and a legal system out of touch with the electronic world.

Two thumbs down to any company without the wisdom to see through this.

(tokamak) #26

By far yes, same for ETQW and COD actually, you can pirate it and have some fun in singleplayer but for the real multiplayer you’ll need to get the full version.

(Jamieson) #27

Exactly agree with Doubledigit, Stroggafier and tokamak

(AnthonyDa) #28

Both cracked and legit players of COD MW 2 can plays online (on the same server).
Anyone knows what is the protection used for it ? (I only have this info, not the game);

(darthmob) #29

In my opinion the real appeal of software piracy is convenience. Everything is just a click away. The problem with more sophisticated copy protections like DRM is that it only makes downloading a game more attractive. Sure, the cracker has to invest more time to get around the protection but the player who downloads the game doesn’t experience that. He gets an image, a crack and everything works. The honest player who buys the game has to cope with installation limits and online registrations.

There should be some way to market big titles like indy games because those offer a similar convenience as illegal downloads. You click on the paypal button, enter your paypal account data and you instantly get a fullspeed download. Steam seems like a step in the right direction but the download rates are annoyingly low. What kind of choice is there between paying for a game and downloading it in 4.5 hours or not paying for a game and downloading it in 30 minutes?

The reason for me to buy games is that PC sales are ridiculously low compared to console sales and it is important to support the developers (even more in times of bad economy). I doubt that much will change though as long as pirating a game is often so much more easier than buying it.

[QUOTE=AnthonyDa;207536]Both cracked and legit players of COD MW 2 can plays online (on the same server).
Anyone knows what is the protection used for it ? (I only have this info, not the game);[/QUOTE]There has been a patch released which is supposed to fix it.

(signofzeta) #30

[QUOTE=darthmob;207543]

The reason for me to buy games is that PC sales are ridiculously low compared to console sales and it is important to support the developers (even more in times of bad economy). I doubt that much will change though as long as pirating a game is often so much more easier than buying it.[/QUOTE]

which in turn, would use your money to support the console players because they think people who obtain pirated copies are thieves and not people annoyed at the whole DRM ordeal.

Some developers are actually like that.

(DoubleDigit) #31

Don’t know about anyone else but I get full speed when downloading from steam. However, games are about 10E more expensive on steam than retail and even If steam is more than enough drm, there are games that still have the securom/starforce crap in them on top of steam. How stupid is that?

(darthmob) #32

[QUOTE=signofzeta;207551]which in turn, would use your money to support the console players because they think people who obtain pirated copies are thieves and not people annoyed at the whole DRM ordeal.

Some developers are actually like that.[/QUOTE]I’d say if you like a game and you play the game buy it no matter if it has got DRM or not. Everything else just sounds like a lame excuse. And why should the money I spend for a PC game support the console players? Because of multi platform releases? You can’t change that. And not paying for a game most definitely won’t change it.

[QUOTE=DoubleDigit;207557]Don’t know about anyone else but I get full speed when downloading from steam. However, games are about 10E more expensive on steam than retail and even If steam is more than enough drm, there are games that still have the securom/starforce crap in them on top of steam. How stupid is that?[/QUOTE]I guess it has got technical reasons. Those games were added to steam after they have already been sold in retail and it may have been too much work to remove it. That doesn’t change the fact it’s rather stupid, though.

And Steam download speeds may be dependant on peak times. I usually buy games there when they offer them for 50%+ off. May sound a bit cheap to complain about download rates then but my point is that you would get all the games you want for 50 bucks with a 365 days rapidshare account. I wouldn’t wonder at all if consoles had the same percentage of pirated copies as PCs if it wouldn’t be necessary to modify the console itself (put in a chip or whatever it is they do).

(DarkangelUK) #33

DRM is in place because people pirate games and companies lose sales, yet the hate seems to be towards the devs for some reason… i don’t get this. If games weren’t pirated at such an extreme level, then there’d be no need for DRM… it’s called forcing the hand. Sure it’s poorly implemented, but you can’t blame a company for trying to protect it’s asset, especially with the soaring cost of development. Pirates brought this upon us, not the developers.

(Jamieson) #34

Instead of wasting money on useless DRM which does nothing but inconveience legal customers spend it on making the game even better.

That way you can convince more people that the product really is worth paying the price for.
Atleast when DRM was not around legal customers and pirates were equal now it seems pirates get the better deal because they cut out all the crap and don’t pay for it as well.

(DarkangelUK) #35

Again you seem to be blaming the devs here (it’s their fault that their game gets pirated), i’ve played some great games and i’ve played some poor games… all of which get pirated. I don’t think piracy is dependant on how playable or polished a game is…

(ap4thy) #36

[QUOTE=Jamieson;207592]Instead of wasting money on useless DRM which does nothing but inconveience legal customers spend it on making the game even better.

That way you can convince more people that the product really is worth paying the price for.
Atleast when DRM was not around legal customers and pirates were equal now it seems pirates get the better deal because they cut out all the crap and don’t pay for it as well.[/QUOTE]

You can be confident that Splash Damage won’t waste any resources on DRM. The developers usually don’t have anything to say regarding DRM, that’s usually up to the publisher, in this case Bethesda.

(Stroggafier) #37

Some posters may have forgotten the key consideration: Pirating is not a factor in improving sales. Trying to capture more revenue by trying to stem piracy has no positive return - its a net loss. Pissing off paying customers is a net loss. Hence, DRM is focusing resources at the wrong place and results in a net loss.

The realization that forward thinking companies have come to, is that to increase sales, they must focus on and please the paying customers. Using their resources to improve the game experience is where the gain is at. Pirates are not in that equation. So, DRM is completely misguided.

(SockDog) #38

I’m happy with some DRM that prevents casual copying but the key is that it shouldn’t offer an experience worse than pirating the game. Gamekey and online registration seems to pretty much hit this mark.

As for the wider topic of DRM and Piracy. I’ll stand with Valve that there is far more to gain by attracting and rewarding paying customers than there is by fighting piracy to the detriment of those customers.

So that said I hope Bethesda make an intelligent choice beyond some one sided, DRM biased, statistical report.

(light_sh4v0r) #39

In CoD, you can host cracked servers which don’t perform the cd-key check on players, which means legal and illegal players can play on the same servers. Those servers will have punkbuster etc running, and are in no way different from the legal servers. Most importantly, those servers are very popular, there’s always more than enough to chose from.
Not sure if it works the same way in MW2, never played that. But I played on cracked servers with my LEGIT copy, so I could play with friends who didn’t own the game.

Like others have said, there is no way around piracy, and I suppose the reason it doesn’t happen in ETQW is that it’s not popular enough to put the effort in creating cracked servers, but I’m quite sure it would be possible. Just like how it is remarkably simple to stop the ingame adverts from showing, would they bother you.

bottom line: pirates can get it done, money spend on stopping them is money wasted, both on implementing the prevention and on custumers who have problems with said prevention.

(Senethro) #40

You guys can spout your anti-DRM talking points to each other ad nauseum but it will change little. DRM makes sense for some products. Not for small indie or low budget titles as it’ll cost more than is recouped from preventing lost sales, but for AAA products it makes sense. Bioshock’s securom went uncracked for 9 or 11 days, I forget which. Given the scale of the release and that most of the units sold will be in the first two weeks, DRM was a success in this case. It doens’t have to remain uncracked for all time, just long enough to make the people on the edge of buying it to fork over their cash. The rest either can’t or never would buy it anyway. No loss.

As long as its well QAed, DRM will only annoy the hardcore audience and the casual won’t even notice it. The hardcore audience are already massive pirates and can’t be stopped. The casual audience doesn’t really understand the alternatives. (Check out all the comments on TPB about “how do I open .rar file”, “whats daemontools”.) The hardcore audience is also irrelevent on the budget sheet due to their small size.

If Brink has online authentication for multiplayer, and does it better than MW2 did, then it probably wouldn’t make sense to have a very expensive/invasive DRM placed upon it. But I suspect it’ll be up to Bethesda to make the call.