Another feedback from a new player

(Nail) #21

It’s early days lads, like , years early. Why is everyone so hasty ?

(Hundopercent) #22

Lethal toys will kill this game faster than a low TTK tbh. I’m 100% against it unless it’s something like a panzer where you can see it coming. We don’t need more items like mines etc laying around the map randomly fragging people.

(acutepuppy) #23

[QUOTE=OwNLY;445651]Ehm, no.

If you want to kill a better player, get better on your own.
Training. Thats what one does at all activities in life to get better.
Why would you think otherwise?
[/QUOTE]

I think the point is having weapons that are nichely powerful. Weapons like the Panzer allow you to wait, and be effective in ONE shining moment. Or you can waste your extremely low ROF shot on one dude, and be mopped up by someone, unless you’re really handy with an often-difficult secondary.

In Quake Wars I was pretty damn good with the rocket launcher, because I studied the maps, spawn times, trick jumps, vantage points, the fire-delay, and the machine pistol. That and the sniper rifle (mostly due to the same factors, and very active radar reading) paid off for me, I was never as good as other players with the Lacerator or AR.

A newbie could pick up a rocket and blow the **** out of [PRO]$NIP3R-GAM3R. But he wasn’t going to turn the tides of the game. If he learned the GAME, then he can dominate with a rocket launcher…

Players should be rewarded with practice, and/or study. Some people don’t have the ability to track headshots, no matter their gaming mice, 0ms latency monitors, and fiber connection. These players should be able to learn the intricacies of the game, and be rewarded as well. DB is really shallow right now, honestly. It’s very Brinky in HUD, maps, and objective play… no matter how good the gunplay is, it will never be more than a cog in the greater machine, that isn’t exactly together.

Honestly, I think if both games could have been completed, Wolfenstein '09 MP would be better than Brink.

(woll3) #24

And then the newbie goes to another game because he cant kill anything without RL, and [PRO]$NIP3R-GAM3R leaves the game because he gets cheaply fragged by newbies. Ofc if there isnt any classrestriction on Public, but that would be a bit problematic gameplaywise.

And imo, the Game isnt fast enough to justify a “Antipersonnel RL”.

(Dragonji) #25

What a silly thinking. He would more probably leave if he couldn’t kill anyone with SMG and there was no possibility to use another type of weapon.

(woll3) #26

You have a point, but speaking for myself, i wouldnt have much motivation to play with a onetime Weapon and then get fragged because the game itself doesnt suit me, no matter the reasons for that. In the end proper matchmaking would be a much more better option than adding new “toys”.

(Jamieson) #27

In my experience comp mods like promod have always been the dividers in the past in keeping newbies and pros separated from each other, except when pro gamers jump on pub for some newb stomping. With that said though you won’t get better unless you play against better people so staying with people near or around your ability will just cause you to stagnate.

(woll3) #28

SD doesnt want to create a big gap between the mechanics of public and comp gameplay, and mods shouldnt be the way to sepearate the player bases, or otherwise we would have many little communities inside a probably not too big community, not to mention that the transition would be even harder, also most mechanics/weapons in Videogames that are not suited for comp are just unbalanced/broken.

And how should someone know what type of players are on the server without a elo-system or something similar?(If there are no mods like with BF3) Without it it can always happen that a “pro” joins on a “newbie” server if its name doesnt state it.

(sunshinefats) #29

[QUOTE=woll3;445772]And then the newbie goes to another game because he cant kill anything without RL, and [PRO]$NIP3R-GAM3R leaves the game because he gets cheaply fragged by newbies. Ofc if there isnt any classrestriction on Public, but that would be a bit problematic gameplaywise.

And imo, the Game isnt fast enough to justify a “Antipersonnel RL”.[/QUOTE]

I think you’re wrong here. I was the player you’re talking about and I stayed around and played and played and played. I was surgical with the panzer after enough practice. And with 1 or 2 players like myself, who were using it strategically(i.e. not trying to play a deatmatch-playing objective-destroying enemy deployables/vehicles and covering engies etc from a distance) it could easily turn the tide of the game against better players. So rather than pushing me away, it made me stay…for several years.

I agree with you totally on this and this is very much what DB is currently missing. To me, there’s far too much tdm going on and far too little strategy or objective.

(Stumperd) #30

[QUOTE=OwNLY;445651]Ehm, no.

If you want to kill a better player, get better on your own.
Training. Thats what one does at all activities in life to get better.
Why would you think otherwise?

And don´t ask SD to give you stuff to kill them.
Better players can use this stuff to kill you, too. And they will, of course, be better than you with it.

Thats exactly what CoD is doing. Dumbing the game down to a level where everyone can frag anyone, just by pressing a button.

/edit:
And thats one of the points where i get loud, :o
because i bought into the alpha to prevent stuff like that from happening.[/QUOTE]

That’s what you think, not what casual players think. Casual players make or break a game.

(Volcano) #31

from the casual perspective the xp being displayed on the screen gives them incentive to keep playing but don’t go overboard with rewarding players (eg BF3 suppression ribbon) as long as they can see some sort of progression and a goal/prize to aim for that will keep them playing

(.N.E.R.D.) #32

Didn’t read all replies but if you wanna kill a better play just play Soldier :wink:

(MrFunkyFunk) #33

Yeah there aren’t enough players that play the Assault class! wink wink

But it’s true that you’ll only get better by playing and by playing against better than you, analyzing & mimicing those players actions. It sure is better if the progression isn’t brutal, a ranking system might make the process smoother, but there isn’t a perfect system.
In objectives games, newbies get the opportunity to jump in the action to participate and make team contributions, they can see themselves climbing the scoreboard without necessarily killing dozens of people. XP score points are a good incentive.

I’m not a big fan of niche weapons, some players will keep using (or abusing if there’s little control on server settings) them as an easy solution instead of patiently learning the ways that would make them improve.

(Kl3ppy) #34

Are there enough players to play at all? :tongue:

(MrFunkyFunk) #35

That’s for the other topic :tongue:

(sunshinefats) #36

This would be true if there were more ways to contribute to the team effort and get xp. As it is currently, this isn’t really the case and the small xp you’re rewarded is far outweighed by the constant onslaught of repeating death you must endure. As I’ve said before, it’s more frustrating than fun right now and that’s not gonna keep anyone around in the casual circles. But the bright side is that there’s plenty of time to add in stuff to do, tweak the xp, etc. so I’m still hopeful that what you say will turn out to be true eventually. :slight_smile:

I do…and I still get killed in 2 shots from across the map by OP medics and their stupid super pistols lol :wink:

(Anti) #37

I think we see the comp/pub split this way, the mechanics and class usage should not really vary between them, so what you learn on pubs can be used in comp. The ‘wrapper’ for comp versus pub play though can be very different.

As an example, pub players really don’t seem to like playing the same map back-to-back in SW, they’d rather rotate maps quicker in Objective, so we’ll probably host more Objective servers for publics.

Comp players tend to want to play SW and with 5v5 or 6v6, not massed teams, so whatever ranked mode we end up with will have SW 5v5 or 6v6 rules.

Comp guys want balanced teams without folks joining and leaving all the time, so our ranked mode will probably follow the sort of game rules LoL and Dota use about playing out a full match and punishing leavers etc, whilst using skill ratings to balance teams. Pub guys care more about playing with their friends than having really balanced teams so when we balance public games we’ll maybe be less strict about it than in comp.

What we don’t want to do is have massive variants in rule sets and mechanics between these two areas of play. That means we want to avoid class limits, weapon bans, character bans etc wherever we can. The character should be balance for comp and played like that on pubs.

(OwNLY) #38

[QUOTE=Anti;446238]
What we don’t want to do is have massive variants in rule sets and mechanics between these two areas of play. That means we want to avoid class limits, weapon bans, character bans etc wherever we can. The character should be balance for comp and played like that on pubs.[/QUOTE]

And exactly here i see the problem.

When you include stuff like turrets, mines, heartbeat sensors, killstreaks (“Tier”-System), camera grenades, sticky mines and throwing knifes, you cannot expect to have this stuff accepted in competition mode.
Or if you don´t ban them or/and limit them, the ruleset of eSport Leagues will be different from yours.

(Ashog) #39

Everything speaks for having an internal promod (even though it would assist the player base split) because the player base is split already now, it seems.

Just a mad idea, why not having a higher TTK in pub mod and lower TTK in promod?

(Nail) #40

easy enough to sort, have separate maps for pub and comp, no EV or carry maps for comp