And that's why we need forced balance 1-2 times per match.

(Jostabeere) #1

So when we going to get a forced balance which can be called-in 1-2 times per a match?
This shit shouldn’t be a thing:
http://puu.sh/kZkDW/09654ad4b5.jpg
“B-b-but levels don’t mean anything!”
Yeah, we see it here.

(Pecka) #2

One better player, I can also see level 31 who has the same amount of XP as level 3 on the other team :slight_smile:

Stop complaining kid and go back learning the game, so you can one day became the “carrier”

(FUNNYBLACKMAN) #3

I agree.Happens way too often, especially when the server has very few people at the start of the match and all the skilled guys join one team.

(gg2ez) #4

Shia LeBouf is a level 31. How enlightening.

(Lumi) #5

I agree with OP, if I would make a print screen of every single imbalanced game I have, I’d fill up my hard drive with then in less than two weeks.

The close games from the close beta are all gone, now it’s either be part of the wrecking or get wrecked kinda a games…

Let’s hope the update will fix that.

(Jostabeere) #6

I mean, if it’s only one, okay, this can barely be balanced. But I mean 2+ people who are much higher than the rest should be split.

(Pecka) #7

Again for all the people that rushed with clicking dislike button on my comment.

What is to dislike about it? He says look how level means something and we can see level 31 player that has the same amount of XP as level 3 player… Balancing about levels is not going to achieve anything.

If you people would spend the same time you complain here on forum , learning the game, you would help to achieve balanced games better.

This will never, ever be solved until we get dedicated/ rented servers.

Shuffling teams several times per one game is nothing you want. Nothing can be more annoying that having the game switch your team several times per game. Also it never really ensures any balance for the whole game.

How long does it take you to understand that it’s a public server. You cannot force anyone to play for the objective. People want to have fun, and having fun means different things for different people. Some wants to only frag, some wants to only mess around, test classes, and some wants to play for objective.

Players owned servers is the only thing that can solve it. You would then see different servers with different play styles, and a given “server community” admins that can enforce play style envisioned by given server owner.

The above is the only real solution to provide balance and different playgrounds, for different player levels and play styles. No automated system will ever work, never!

If you really want to play the real objective oriented game, get your friends together and join competitive. This is now the only option to have nice games. Yes, sometimes you might get matched with lower/ or higher ranked players, but this is slowly improving and playing with friends will make sure your games are decent. Definitely more decent than our “all together public” servers DB has now.

(CameFromThePast) #8

Lol it happens to me so often that I even forgot matches can be sharped in this game. 9/10 of the time its an awful stomp.

(Lumi) #9

@Pecka

your argument meant nothing, as that low scoring level 31 could have just joined the game later and not from the start. If people disliked your post it’s because levels and hence experience do matter.

Telling people to go play more instead of ranting here, is basically telling: go get a higher level so you don’t have to complain. What kind of solution is that? There will still be newcomers and those who kept learning and playing will become the high levels that will keep turning games unbalanced.

And regardless of levels, people joining mid-game or switching, just as much as player number imbalance when people leave is something that affects and will keep affecting games in the long run if an automatic shuffle and mid-game balancing system is not implemented.

That’s why you got disliked. Because you’re the 1000th person who still doesn’t get what’s wrong with the current balancing system, nothing else.

(FireWorks) #10

[quote=“Pecka;99586”]Again for all the people that rushed with clicking dislike button on my comment.

What is to dislike about it? He says look how level means something and we can see level 31 player that has the same amount of XP as level 3 player… Balancing about levels is not going to achieve anything.

If you people would spend the same time you complain here on forum , learning the game, you would help to achieve balanced games better.

This will never, ever be solved until we get dedicated/ rented servers.

Shuffling teams several times per one game is nothing you want. Nothing can be more annoying that having the game switch your team several times per game. Also it never really ensures any balance for the whole game.

How long does it take you to understand that it’s a public server. You cannot force anyone to play for the objective. People want to have fun, and having fun means different things for different people. Some wants to only frag, some wants to only mess around, test classes, and some wants to play for objective.

Players owned servers is the only thing that can solve it. You would then see different servers with different play styles, and a given “server community” admins that can enforce play style envisioned by given server owner.

The above is the only real solution to provide balance and different playgrounds, for different player levels and play styles. No automated system will ever work, never!

If you really want to play the real objective oriented game, get your friends together and join competitive. This is now the only option to have nice games. Yes, sometimes you might get matched with lower/ or higher ranked players, but this is slowly improving and playing with friends will make sure your games are decent. Definitely more decent than our “all together public” servers DB has now.

[/quote]

While I agree with most of your post, there are still some flaws in the current iteration that could be stopped.

Things like the newest player being automatically put to the attackers instead of the weaker team. “Elo” is already in place for prematch distribution, why not capitalize on it further during a match.

The connecting of players can be a very long process. During this time, the team lacks one or more players. If someone connects faster, you even find teams with 2 or more players advantage on the field while the game thinks it is balanced on the scoreboard.
This is often the time where defender set up crossfires near the spawn or attackers rush the objective and set up there for free.

Id propose to assign somebody to a team after he is actually connected, loaded and ready to play. They would first come into the spec pool and later distributed by current Elo.

(SnakekillerX) #11

Having a forced team balance multiple times mid game would be pretty lame.
Hey I’m on attackers… no wait, now I’m on defenders… no, back to attackers! wtf?

The level DOES mean nothing, how long it takes a player to reach that level however does.

This game is getting a lot of people talking about imbalanced games, but you have to understand that there is only 1 objective that entire match is focused on at a given time. If one team has one really good player (regardless of level) it can really impact or imbalance the whole game.

How can the game really know how the match is going to pan out, or who’s behind the wheel?

I run into a lot of imbalanced games as well, either my team is stomping, or the other team is, occasionally its a really close match… but people still complain about imbalance because their team ultimately lost. Someone HAS to lose.

If I play with a friend of two of mine who also do really well, we NEVER get on the same team.
The game always tosses us on to opposite teams because of how we performed in the last 10 matches. While a bit frustrating that we are never on the same team the game still ends up being imbalanced at times.

Having some servers locked to certain degrees of score per minute might help to keep players playing with people their own skill. Though again score per minute is also a bit subjective, as you can attain a higher score at times without really being that good at the game.

Take Kira’s Ammo Station, you can just put it in a high traffic area and profit off of the XP the entire round on defense, while also gaining the free XP from defending the objecting.

They could potentially be AFK and still obtain a decent score.

Balancing the game for 12~16 people can be very difficult indeed. The game doesn’t know if you are good at the map, it doesn’t know if you are good at playing defense, it doesn’t know if you are good at playing with your current merc setup, or their card load outs, it doesn’t know if you even HAVE the mercs that would benefit your team most since its impossible to tell which mercs people will stick to using in a game that hasn’t happened yet.

It doesn’t know if someone’s ping is going to be an issue, or if they end up getting packet loss mid way, or have to AFK… or rage quit or if someone new is going to have to end up taking their place. It doesn’t know if that new player is going to truely be at the same level as the old player or drastically different.

“Skill” is highly subjective to the circumstance you are in. Auto balancing a bunch of times during the won’t make the game more fun, it will just serve to annoy everyone.

I’d say having more rooms for people under a certain level would be good as they still be in the learning stages of the maps, the weapons, the mercs, and really just the game in general.

Past the expected learning curve level really means nothing other than how long you’ve played the game. I’m no better now than I was 20 or more levels ago.

(mpod89) #12

Seriously? Nobody is going to say anything about PenisMachineGun? How could you have even lost with a guy like that on your team

(gg2ez) #13

[quote=“Pecka;99586”]Again for all the people that rushed with clicking dislike button on my comment.

What is to dislike about it? He says look how level means something and we can see level 31 player that has the same amount of XP as level 3 player… Balancing about levels is not going to achieve anything.

If you people would spend the same time you complain here on forum , learning the game, you would help to achieve balanced games better.

This will never, ever be solved until we get dedicated/ rented servers.

Shuffling teams several times per one game is nothing you want. Nothing can be more annoying that having the game switch your team several times per game. Also it never really ensures any balance for the whole game.

How long does it take you to understand that it’s a public server. You cannot force anyone to play for the objective. People want to have fun, and having fun means different things for different people. Some wants to only frag, some wants to only mess around, test classes, and some wants to play for objective.

Players owned servers is the only thing that can solve it. You would then see different servers with different play styles, and a given “server community” admins that can enforce play style envisioned by given server owner.

The above is the only real solution to provide balance and different playgrounds, for different player levels and play styles. No automated system will ever work, never!

If you really want to play the real objective oriented game, get your friends together and join competitive. This is now the only option to have nice games. Yes, sometimes you might get matched with lower/ or higher ranked players, but this is slowly improving and playing with friends will make sure your games are decent. Definitely more decent than our “all together public” servers DB has now.

[/quote]

You got disliked because you automatically assumed that people who see balance issues are bad at the game and honestly, you’re incredibly short sighted if you think that getting better at the game will somehow magically change the game balance because in the end DB still puts experienced teams against unexperienced eams.

Whilst I agree that balancing around levels isn’t the way to go about this, saying “git gud and carry” also isn’t a way to go about this.

(FireWorks) #14

Can we pls go away from the level and skill discussion. I think we all agree that games could be more balanced and we also know theres already a hidden Elo system to rate players for their distribution to teams in the lobby.

(Ardez1) #15

The other side of this is that 5 of the players in that game should have been in a max level 5 server rather than a normal one, but they likely didn’t see it or willingly chose to play against possibly higher level players.

(Jostabeere) #16

[quote=“Pecka;99586”]Again for all the people that rushed with clicking dislike button on my comment.

What is to dislike about it? He says look how level means something and we can see level 31 player that has the same amount of XP as level 3 player… Balancing about levels is not going to achieve anything.

If you people would spend the same time you complain here on forum , learning the game, you would help to achieve balanced games better.

This will never, ever be solved until we get dedicated/ rented servers.

Shuffling teams several times per one game is nothing you want. Nothing can be more annoying that having the game switch your team several times per game. Also it never really ensures any balance for the whole game.

How long does it take you to understand that it’s a public server. You cannot force anyone to play for the objective. People want to have fun, and having fun means different things for different people. Some wants to only frag, some wants to only mess around, test classes, and some wants to play for objective.

Players owned servers is the only thing that can solve it. You would then see different servers with different play styles, and a given “server community” admins that can enforce play style envisioned by given server owner.

The above is the only real solution to provide balance and different playgrounds, for different player levels and play styles. No automated system will ever work, never!

If you really want to play the real objective oriented game, get your friends together and join competitive. This is now the only option to have nice games. Yes, sometimes you might get matched with lower/ or higher ranked players, but this is slowly improving and playing with friends will make sure your games are decent. Definitely more decent than our “all together public” servers DB has now.

[/quote]

The people who just started the game and got stomped by a lvl 20 and a lvl 50 don’t care about what you wrote. They got a game ruined because 2 people couldn’t stay in a min 10 game or a comp game.

(Lumi) #17

I agree, usually the game isn’t that poorly balanced at start, problem is that some players leave after the distribution has been done. Furthermore I already explained all the possible influences that can happen after the match-up for games to become imbalanced: switching, leaving, joining, afk’s, long loadings, etc.

Sometimes the game needs to be balanced mid-way. There’s no other solution.

(CameFromThePast) #18

And yea, level does mean a lot. Last night I’ve played against 40 lvl Fletcher who won a game by himself.

(Pecka) #19

[quote=“gg2ez;99598”]
You got disliked because you automatically assumed that people who see balance issues are bad at the game and honestly, you’re incredibly short sighted if you think that getting better at the game will somehow magically change the game balance because in the end DB still puts experienced teams against unexperienced eams.

Whilst I agree that balancing around levels isn’t the way to go about this, saying “git gud and carry” also isn’t a way to go about this.[/quote]

  • Yes I do believe that majority of people complaining about team balance are lower skilled players. High skilled players are never really playing public games that much. It’s mostly 80% lower skilled guys, 19% mid skill, maybe some med+, and just time from time you can actually meet a decent player.

  • If you are good at the game, you can make a huge impact by just switching teams and helping the weaker team. Yes, just one person can make huge difference.

  • Again, guys, no automated mechanism will make this to work, any kind of regular auto-shuffle will only make the games extra annoying. As FireWorks mentioned there are maybe few things that can slightly improve it, but nothing can just ultimately solve the problem except rented/ hosted servers.

  • If you are a decent player, and see other team doing bad, or having less people, just switch team and stop complaining about DB doing poor balancing job, there is no way for them to solve this, they do not have freaking all-knowing crystal ball, got it?

Once again, the best thing you can do is to improve YOUR OWN game, and be that example player that switches teams when needed.

Really, just go back and think twice about what they could do to improve this? Nothing!
You cannot command people what to do, they have their own will.

So again, Improve your own game, and start asking DB to finally start renting servers to people.

(FireWorks) #20

Last night I played with a lv40 Fletcher that was too drunk to defuse the plant.

Sorry but I know enough lv30+ that just suck balls. By the time people reach around lv10 they got enough insight to the game to either chose to progress by actively learning new stuff or simply play the game and stay as bad as they are.

The point is to bring a skill rating. Not levels.