Ammo Pack (Refill Gernade)

(Humate) #21

I remember the days when stroyent gave you a nade. It wasnt good.
I wouldnt mind it on a gib ammo pack, but not on fops ammo.

(tokamak) #22

If it’s a class speciality and it sacrifices rifle ammo then I don’t see the problem. He also doesn’t need to be able to give as many packs as the current ammo packs, there can be a longer cool-down or a lower max.

(stealth6) #23

I like tokamak’s idea the most so far.

In W:ET ammopacks refilled your grenades when you had full weapon ammo. But since you only have 4 ammopacks it would probably require 3-4 ammopacks to give 1 person a grenade. So instead of spreading the ammo love you’re going to have greedy people picking up all of your ammo just to get that grenade.

(Shiv) #24

One thing i see happening with this is teams of feild ops dropping crates and throwing grenades down chokes, there are a couple of places this would effectivly make it impossible to move forward.
I remember the stroyent grenade stuff in quakewars as well. Grenades EVERYWHERE.

My vote goes for either gibbed bodies, although thats almost 1 grenade per kill which seems a bit extreme.
or Grenade on a timer which resets when you die.

(tokamak) #25

That could be a perfectly legit tactic if it’s cleverly regulated. If you take two field ops with a long cooldown and not being able to pick up their own grenade packs then the team can hold a choke or push to an area for a very short time but then it also means the entire team is very low on rifle ammo and the like.

As long as there’s a reasonable cost you can have very deviating things in the game. I don’t see much issue with a concerted grenade spam if it needs rigid teamwork to be pulled off followed by a considerable down-time.

(Kiddspooky) #26

Totally agree!

(Thundermuffin) #27

[QUOTE=Shiv;414857]My vote goes for either gibbed bodies, although thats almost 1 grenade per kill which seems a bit extreme.
or Grenade on a timer which resets when you die.[/QUOTE]

While maybe it could take 2 ~ 4 gibbed ammo packs to give you one grenade, there really shouldn’t be that much of a problem at 1 grenade per kill. You have to have an empty spot for it to actually give you another grenade, so that would require people to throw grenades after killing each person if they wanted to pick one up and doing that would do more harm to yourself than good (you’d be an easy target a lot of the time).

(Apples) #28

That is because respanwing should be a feature and give a tactical advantage, not the other way around. But this need to be adressed in the spawn section :slight_smile: (spawn waves, refining the spawn timers, etc…)

A good player will keep his nades to do the right stuffs, if he dies too much (being careless) he wont use his nades well anyway IMO because he wont take a tactical point of view or a right angle of attack, the thing is, I want a shooter, not a spam fest, nades should be tactical, not leathal weapons of mass destruction, if a player survives a long time, he already should have the advantage by getting into the right positions and should hold the ennemy with his weapons (aim) not with his nades.

It is indeed, open to discussion but I dont feel like having more spam would achieve anything good (and remember there arent grenadelauncher neither rocketlauncher yet… which can be ressupplied with ammo pack)

(tokamak) #29

Ideally no player should ever feel the necessity to respawn. Even letting go from your downed body needs to be a painful decision to make, most of the time players should have the incentive to wait for the medic. Ideally a player only grows and becomes more powerful during his life, he needs to obtain more and more stuff he can lose with dying. That way players will start seeking support from their team-mates and start helping each other out better.

Putting effort in something and getting more stuff you can lose also makes you care more about that life. Ever played the demoman with the eyelander? It’s an incredible experience, you play carefully and you try to sneak in the kills one by one until you turn into a really fast and strong monster that completely ruins everyone’s day, and still you carry that fear that with one wrong move, all of it is gone, so after every rush with your newfound 6-kill toy, you run back to the medic or supply point to keep staying alive.

Players need to be pissed off about deaths. It needs to emotionally hit them. Likewise, killing someone (and thus stopping his growth) gives you an emotional laden victory.

This is something DB needs. It makes people be more careful with their life, it makes them put more factors into consideration and stop taking frivolous risks.

Depriving them of grenades is the exact opposite direction. The moment you threw your last grenade you’ve limited yourself in options . It’s not a really big deal but it’s one more reason to start with a clean slate in case you’re going to need it. Respawning to be safe and to bring back your options is just terrible.

(INF3RN0) #30

Are you suggesting kill-streak awards that give you more advantage? In that case I think I’ll make you regret that suggestion…

(tokamak) #31

Yes the most direct way to promote that is kill-streaks. But in this case we’re discussing players losing their options permanently over the course of their life.

I’m a big proponent of killstreaks and I understand the consequences of giving people like you access to it. But that’s what I want to see. I’m going to enjoy seeing players ascend to greater strengths and becoming a bigger asset in their team. It changes the teamwork dynamics as well. Once a player is buffed up in one way or another the team has a bigger interest in keeping him alive. Vice versa, the opponent team may want to start paying more attention in focussing on him (and gibbing him).

Once players start to have different levels of power in the game target prioritisation starts to matter. This is especially fun for the covert ops who should have a much easier time to pick off a specific player if he really needs to.

I’ll open a new thread on this if I’ve found the right angle. But yeah, it’s with this sentiment that I believe grenades should be replenishable. Life needs to be valuable at all times, players always should be able to get back to their 100% if not the 110% or the 150% and respawning should not be used for this.

(stealth6) #32

New topic required!

(warbie) #33

Self killing is too big a team play element to promote mechanics like kill streaks. Ammo packs adding nades would be fine, although some measure to prevent nade spam might have to be looked into.

(tokamak) #34

As a mechanic it’s pretty uninteresting. All in all I consider it a necessary evil more than an actual gameplay feature. It exists to keep you in the pace of things and get you out of situations in which you would have been wasting a lot of time.

Self-killing can remain possible to relocate yourself if necessary. That will always remain. That doesn’t mean we should refrain from making that decision more difficult or at least remove any incentives that promote self-killing. And having any kind of limited set of options that can’t be regained is one of those incentives. I really dislike that.

(AKAMrSmiley) #35

More nades? My experience so far has been nades don’t generate a lot of kills but they occasionally get a little damage on people so they have to pull away and find a medic / pack up, occasionally they aren’t primed which just means the person will see the nade icon and back away possibly find some cover in case the enemy rushes in after nade spam. Either way it just creates more time which if that gives anyone an advantage that would be defenders. Though there are some situations where they have a greater effect, when the user can predict where the enemy is going to be and the area is small and the enemy team is clustered up they generally have their best affect on a match. So generally in bottlenecks as an enemy team is trying to make a push. A good nade at the right time with some sort of follow up can completely shut down a push, easier and more frequently than a nade for the offense getting entry kills and storming an objective. Along with that there are certain objectives which can have nades lobbed into / onto from safety, now yes this means you can possibly get an entry kill on a defender it is generally less likely as they could be anywhere in that room where as the objective player will generally be on / near the objective. Pretty much what I’m trying to say is although nades used to be considered a weapon more for creating a hole for the offense but with the way SD has been making maps with more bottlenecks that lead to open areas I’d think they would favor defense more, and defense as it stands on all of the maps don’t need more help. Aside from that I personally feel that nade spam is one of the most skill-less ways of besting someone in combat in a shooter game and shouldn’t be something that can be repeated over and over, if you need more than one nade to get your clutch triple-quad kill or for your “strategic nading” you should just go soldier. If you really believe you need a nade to open up a defense and you’ve already gone through your stack, as someone has brought up in this thread already, respawns in this game are already frequent and close to the front lines. There won’t be too long of a delay before you come back into the fray nade spamming… But to be able to get extra nades while being supressed and pinned to a location and then to possibly get an easy kill(s) out of it while enemies are trying to clear, meh. No mulligans please, this ain’t MtG.

(Breo) #36

[QUOTE=Evil-Doer;414511]I haven’t seen it be a topic yet.

Ever think of having your grenades refilled with ammo packs? I can see many positives an negatives, but which seems better?[/QUOTE]

Hell no, refill in combination with the suggested “cooking” in another thread we will only have grenate spam without the possibily to get away from the explosion.

Also you’re movements still slowdown from explosions. The object players will even die more because it will be use at these locations so nobody wants to play this class with these adjustments.

(warbie) #37

[QUOTE=tokamak;415061]As a mechanic it’s pretty uninteresting. All in all I consider it a necessary evil more than an actual gameplay feature. It exists to keep you in the pace of things and get you out of situations in which you would have been wasting a lot of time.

Self-killing can remain possible to relocate yourself if necessary. [/QUOTE]

Self killing was one of the more important features in ET. Attacking teams timing self killing as one rather than hitting bottles necks in ones and twos, or being able to defend aggressively, allowing for pushes for the spawn flag that would be too risky otherwise. Like the whole yin and yang revive/gib mechanic, it is exactly things like this that are most interesting and teamplay affecting in games like this.

(INF3RN0) #38

Public poll anyone? I vote no. I do however want FOPS to do something more important for the team besides airstrikes.

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #39

Aren’t you the guy that is always saying you keep running out of ammo? :slight_smile:

(INF3RN0) #40

Yes I am lol, but I don’t want ammo packs to give me even more grenades :eek:!