All of the Phantom players are fustrated

c00face · 2015-07-22 20:21:09 UTC

that they can’t just run and insta-kill 3 people in the same room. as far as i can tell, the phantom nerf was actually pretty good. it puts him in a more counter active playing style, instead of just running around and mindlessly slicing everyone and winning. at least now, you have to play cautiously like every other merc. unless you’re Rhino. because Rhino doesn’t care and does what he wants and win.

seriously though… Rhino is like a walking deployable turret that have armor/health, and can jump/run.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-22 20:36:01 UTC

There’s playing cautiously, and there’s dying because of the awkward melee, and the fact the enemy is easily able to see and hear you.

MTLMortis · 2015-07-22 20:40:39 UTC

Which is exactly why I was never bothered by Phantoms even before the tuning pass.

shotgun > katana

especially now that they fixed the melee bug.

TeeKayM · 2015-07-22 20:42:52 UTC

Phantom’s fucking horrible now. You sneak up behind someone but you only hit them once and you want to hit them again but nooooooooo because you can’t even move the goddamn katana.

MTLMortis · 2015-07-22 20:45:12 UTC

Would you prefer they lower the dmg so that it takes 3-4 swings to kill someone and increase the swing speed?

jetJester · 2015-07-22 20:46:39 UTC

Your post is pretty much self explanatory about your skill level, it’s been said and proved countless times that only newbie that can’t even grasp how phantom work(ED) could call him op, yet they made an update focused for casuals increasing spread here and there, adding muzzleflash, nerfing a fine merc that an horde of noobs was whining about (just try to see any competitive streamer what thinks and tought about him), they buffed directly and indirectly for no reason fragger, the already strongest merc in competitive; at this point the only thing i can think about this game is that it will be for casuals that doesen’t want to get some in depth mechanics, that’s the worst update i’ve seen on this game,let’s see if they can change things quickly, for now i’m back playing dota

Jojack · 2015-07-22 20:47:13 UTC

I like the fact that Phantom noobs are getting wrecked. It’s good for my soul. The tears are tasty. But I hate that they ruined Phantom instead of taking the time and effort it takes to actually fix his design flaws.

Rjsto · 2015-07-22 20:54:17 UTC

Newsflash guyz, Phantom has a gun. You know, one that can shoot bullets. So what you can’t be the demigod invisible tank beyblade anymore, you’re just gonna have to suck it up and actually, yikes, learn to play with him :#

elegantRoyalty · 2015-07-22 21:05:09 UTC

he was weak before the patch , now hes broken. as a rhino player it makes me sad he was good feeding , but now no ones going to touch him and its back to nade spam ><

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-22 21:06:02 UTC

I do love the sheer arrogance of the people who say Phantom is fine or not nerfed enough.

So he has a gun, yes, so does Sawbonez, and Nader, and Bushwacka, and all of the other mercs.

He also has a Katana, and due to the melee turn speed right now using it is basically setting yourself up to be blasted away, assuming you can actually get in close to use it.

Because not only was he perfectly visible before, and the cloak was audible enough as it was. Now it’s even MORE so, so his main ability is basically pointless as it no longer serves the purpose of getting him behind enemy lines and into his effective range.

So with cloak being useless and melee not being worth using consistently right now…why would you play him? What does he offer that the other mercs do not?

He can’t revive, he can’t handle objectives faster than engineers, he can’t spot, he can only kill, that was his role, a thinking man’s Fragger. Well if that was their goal, they failed miserably.

As I said before, cloak is useless if the enemy can see you, he doesn’t need armor to get behind the enemy or up close in personal, he needs to actually disappear.

Rjsto · 2015-07-22 21:18:14 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;51241”][spoiler]I do love the sheer arrogance of the people who say Phantom is fine or not nerfed enough.

So he has a gun, yes, so does Sawbonez, and Nader, and Bushwacka, and all of the other mercs.

He also has a Katana, and due to the melee turn speed right now using it is basically setting yourself up to be blasted away, assuming you can actually get in close to use it.

Because not only was he perfectly visible before, and the cloak was audible enough as it was. Now it’s even MORE so, so his main ability is basically pointless as it no longer serves the purpose of getting him behind enemy lines and into his effective range.

So with cloak being useless and melee not being worth using consistently right now…why would you play him? What does he offer that the other mercs do not?

He can’t revive, he can’t handle objectives faster than engineers, he can’t spot, he can only kill, that was his role, a thinking man’s Fragger. Well if that was their goal, they failed miserably.

As I said before, cloak is useless if the enemy can see you, he doesn’t need armor to get behind the enemy or up close in personal, he needs to actually disappear.[/spoiler][/quote]

Nah, from a distance he’s still rather hard to see. Plus whether the player feels the cloak is necessary or not, it’s still an armor. Armor. No other class has armor ability, and not only that, it’s also kind of armor that makes him slightly invisible.
And oh nooo, his katana is totally useless now. It still can one shot squishy classes, right? it’s still the best melee weapon in the game, isn’t it? If he gets close, you are just as boned as you were before the patch. Now you can’t just run right in someone’s face so that they notice you only after it’s too late, you actually have to plan your attack, agony

c00face · 2015-07-22 21:20:44 UTC

jetJester;51215:

Your post is pretty much self explanatory about your skill level, it’s been said and proved countless times that only newbie that can’t even grasp how phantom work(ED) could call him op, yet they made an update focused for casuals increasing spread here and there, adding muzzleflash, nerfing a fine merc that an horde of noobs was whining about (just try to see any competitive streamer what thinks and tought about him), they buffed directly and indirectly for no reason fragger, the already strongest merc in competitive; at this point the only thing i can think about this game is that it will be for casuals that doesen’t want to get some in depth mechanics, that’s the worst update i’ve seen on this game,let’s see if they can change things quickly, for now i’m back playing dota

Your statement reminds me of one of those Silver tier crying noobs from League of Legends. Glad that you’re going back to Dota. You’re disgusting comment isn’t needed here, have a nice day.

And no, I didn’t have an issue with dealing with Phantom. But as far as gameplay, he was a little on the over power side, due to his unnecessary shield when in cloaked. There’s no need to have a shield while you’re invisible. It creates non-counter play that even if you spot him, you can’t blast him away because he’s shielded.

And news flash buddy, he has a kek-10 SMG, and a pistol. You don’t necessarily need to land the second melee attack, just pull out the pistol and end it. I’m not sure the reaction time and how much faster or slower it would be. But I can imagine only a max 2 sec difference.

And here’s another tip of the day. If you’re playing Phantom as a running melee champion, spamming your ability in cloak. You’re playing it wrong, and I can see why most of you Phantom players are angry. Just because you’re Phantom, it doesn’t mean you have to go hide around, camping corners, and cloaking every chance you get. Use your gun, and fight with your team. Glad the nerf came through, and I hope they keep it.

watsyurdeal · 2015-07-22 21:34:23 UTC

[quote=“Rjsto;51250”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;51241”][spoiler]I do love the sheer arrogance of the people who say Phantom is fine or not nerfed enough.

So he has a gun, yes, so does Sawbonez, and Nader, and Bushwacka, and all of the other mercs.

He also has a Katana, and due to the melee turn speed right now using it is basically setting yourself up to be blasted away, assuming you can actually get in close to use it.

Because not only was he perfectly visible before, and the cloak was audible enough as it was. Now it’s even MORE so, so his main ability is basically pointless as it no longer serves the purpose of getting him behind enemy lines and into his effective range.

So with cloak being useless and melee not being worth using consistently right now…why would you play him? What does he offer that the other mercs do not?

He can’t revive, he can’t handle objectives faster than engineers, he can’t spot, he can only kill, that was his role, a thinking man’s Fragger. Well if that was their goal, they failed miserably.

As I said before, cloak is useless if the enemy can see you, he doesn’t need armor to get behind the enemy or up close in personal, he needs to actually disappear.[/spoiler][/quote]

Nah, from a distance he’s still rather hard to see. Plus whether the player feels the cloak is necessary or not, it’s still an armor. Armor. No other class has armor ability, and not only that, it’s also kind of armor that makes him slightly invisible.
And oh nooo, his katana is totally useless now. It still can one shot squishy classes, right? it’s still the best melee weapon in the game, isn’t it? If he gets close, you are just as boned as you were before the patch. Now you can’t just run right in someone’s face so that they notice you only after it’s too late, you actually have to plan your attack, agony [/quote]

You know what else one shots squsihy classes? Nader’s Nades, a headshot from the PDP, Shotguns, I could go on, a melee weapon that one shots lights is kinda null unless the character’s abilities support it.

Which brings to my next point, you say “if he gets close, you are just as boned as you were before the patch”. Ok, so people who already had bad awareness of what’s going on around them gain nothing from this change. The people who were already able to see and hear Phantom, will now be able to pick him out much more easily than before. So in other words, in competitive and serious play where the skill level is higher, his ability is absolutely ineffective in getting within his effective range. And considering it’s the only ability he has…he’s not worth it.

There is nothing wrong with forcing the Phantom to plan out his attacks more, but if he doesn’t have the tools needed to actually put said plan into action…what is the point?

Zuty · 2015-07-22 21:41:33 UTC

Both Watsyurdeal and JetJester made completely valid points. I didn’t have Phantom for a long time and never really found him to be all to much of a threat; the only time he did prove to be a frustration was when it was ONLY me and him (if this game was all about 1v1, he’d be one of the best) or the person playing him was a good player and knew how to use him.

So I went ahead and saved up 50K credits and another 17.5K credits for a good bronze card and I decided to focus playing as Phantom for a little over a week. And man, was I underwhelmed. He felt slow, but since I main play Proxy, I ignored that. He was way too squishy; head shots aside, he seemed to die faster than Proxy. And when I did manage to sneak up and one shot someone (which happened maybe once every two-three games), there was always someone right there to take me out.

Now, I’m not claiming to be a good FPS player–it’s my least favorite genre to be honest–but there was one line in the tutorial that made me fall in love with this game: “Don’t be a hero.” No one person should be able to run into battle alone and blow away the other team (which I’ve done COUNTLESS times as Proxy with her trusty shotgun). Phantom NEVER came across as “a hero” who could run in and chop down three or more people. Yes it’s happened; I’ve seen it happen and I’ve been one of those three people killed, but they were such a rare occurrence for even a skilled Phantom player to pull off.

I’ve always seen Phantom as a merc who sneaks in past the enemies, takes out the other teams medic and/or sniper, and than he lurks back into the shadows. And he did THAT job pretty well. The recent adjustments to him were unneeded and a hasty fix to a nonexistent problem. In my eyes, he had ONE job and now he can’t even do that right.

Again, I’m not just some random MLGPhantom player who’s crying about this nerf; I’m as casual of a player as it gets. This update more or less has me scratching my head thinking “So you nerf the guy who’s just doing his job, but you don’t do anything about the fact that I just went 26/3 as Aura using only a knife?” (True story)

~Zuty

Dirmagnos · 2015-07-22 21:45:41 UTC

Phantom - a thinking mans Fragger ?!?! Lol. What a load of rubbish.
Phantom is the most anti-teamplay and nab-oriented class. With his constant cloak spam and strong melee, one of the skilless mercs to play with.
Only ones who are crying regarding him being nefred are lamers who got used with easy kills and lack of any incentive for teamplay.
Who needs skill when you can just easely close in and then finish off most mercs with 1-2 swings. Combine his shield and hp pool and he has no problem to drop on any1 due to huge amount of damage he can soak up without much problems.
More like a tank with an ohk weapon.

Rjsto · 2015-07-22 21:46:27 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;51261”]You know what else one shots squsihy classes? Nader’s Nades, a headshot from the PDP, Shotguns, I could go on, a melee weapon that one shots lights is kinda null unless the character’s abilities support it.
[/quote]

But it’s all situational. Snipers are best on long range, Nader’s nades don’t explode too close so they’re more of a midrange, and Phantom’s sword is for close combat. I’m sure everyone’s been in a situation where they end up closer to enemies than they’d want with the class they’re playing, well lucky phantom can just put his Kek aside and start slashing away.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;51261”]Which brings to my next point, you say “if he gets close, you are just as boned as you were before the patch”. Ok, so people who a lready had bad awareness of what’s going on around them gain nothing. The people who were already able to see and hear Phantom, will now be able to pick him out much more easily than before. So his ability, to actually get within range where his melee is most effective, is pointless.
[/quote]

Eeeyup, it will be easier for them. But when the small group of people who could see him become’s a basically everyone, I’m sure Phantom players will whole new ways to flank enemies, the ones who don’t automatically abandon him after losing their god powers. I mean I can do that in many maps without even slight invisibility, so it’s gonna happen for sure.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;51261”]There is nothing wrong with forcing the Phantom to plan out his attacks more, but if he doesn’t have the tools needed to actually put said plan into action…what is the point?
[/quote]

Well aside from what I said above, the point could be to pluck from the dozen of Phantoms the couple who actually bother learning to play with him and take advantage of the tools he does have.

triteTongs · 2015-07-22 21:51:50 UTC

Yeah, so does fragger. Why go phantom when you can go fragger with more assault power? Or even rhino? You can sneak behind enemy lines as a rhino and people still won’t know.

If anything, the cloak makes you more obvious that you are flanking.

Never had a problem killing him, now I’m going to be sad I’ll never get to see a phantom in play again.

Rjsto · 2015-07-22 21:55:20 UTC

[quote=“triteTongs;51285”]
Yeah, so does fragger. Why go phantom when you can go fragger with more assault power? Or even rhino? You can sneak behind enemy lines as a rhino and people still won’t know.

If anything, the cloak makes you more obvious that you are flanking.

Never had a problem killing him, now I’m going to be sad I’ll never get to see a phantom in play again. :([/quote]

Well do either of them have an armor, or best melee weapon in game? Nuh uh

Shaker1 · 2015-07-22 21:56:27 UTC

[quote=“Dirmagnos;51276”]
Phantom is the most anti-teamplay and nab-oriented class. With his constant cloak spam and strong melee, one of the skilless mercs to play with.[/quote]

He still is. And even if you’re skilled he’s useless because of the nerf. The new melee doesn’t require skill to be used, it’s just unusable. THAT is the problem. SD had to wrap something up quickly and they did it very badly.

The whiny and very vocal minority you’re a part of pretty much ruined melee for everyone, good job !

c00face · 2015-07-22 21:58:29 UTC

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;51261”][quote=“Rjsto;51250”][quote=“Watsyurdeal;51241”][spoiler]I do love the sheer arrogance of the people who say Phantom is fine or not nerfed enough.