Aimbots the truth and a reasoned discussion.

(elegantRoyalty) #1

Aimbots exist and they are in game , there are videos on youtube of the people making them trying to sell them.
They are definitely a problem and need to be addressed.

But

They are nothing like the issue this forum or in game chat would lead you to believe, over 20 years ago thanks to my position in the quake 2 community i was invited onto a private server to see an aimbot in action over the following 2 years i must of had over 500 reports of hacking of which a grand total of three turned out to be true.

Sure the problem has grown , i started playing DB a day before open beta so all of my limited play time of just 53 hours in DB has been in this high influx time. and i have seen a total of 1 hacker here. but day by day as the forum posts mount and the in game accusations spread so does the fear and expectation of running into one and of the 5 games i played yesterday in 4 false accusations of hacking were made and i bet today other people in those games will now see hackers everywhere and start accusing more people and so it spreads. its like the terrorism or online FPS. for some reason it gets so much more attention than it deserves.

Odds are you have way more games ruined by bad matchmaking and bad connections than hacking , but its hacking thats the big boogey man, maybe its because people dont know how to spot it, perhaps its because its directly malicious and there is a face to hang the blame on where as technical problems are just part of the plan. and sometimes its an ego thing , no way can that guy actually be that much better than me, he must be hacking! but the response is so out of whack with the problem that it causes far more issues than the actual hackers.

im not saying do not complain or worry im saying get it in perspective and respond in a way thats good for you and the game.

  1. Dont call people hackers . they are doing it to be disruptive they want the attention calling them out feeds them and if you are annoyed by it they are going to savour that. and if your wrong your spreading the fear and panic.
    and as the old saying goes never argue with an idiot , they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  2. simply report and leave the server, don’t let them waste your time, don’t get angry feel pity for them. imagine how sad their lives must be that they need to do this for attention , were looking at abused children here

(Runeforce) #2

Amen!

(NotaCobra) #3

One thing worth mentioning while we’re here;

Lag compensation in Dirty bomb is very unusual.

if somebody has 300 ping, they don’t miss shots they thought they landed, they’ll land shots that you thought you avoided.

This is a big part of why people cry out that hackers are rife, they get shot after getting into cover, or they’ll shoot a guy 6 times, watch him take no damage then headshot them.

A big thing I want all of you out there who claim the game is full of hackers to do is to check the ping of the person you’re accusing.

if it’s over 300, it’s not their fault.

heck, if it’s under 300, it’s still probably not a hack, but at least this is one checkpoint to make.

(Uruk-Rai) #4

Coming from someone who sadly lives where the only interwebz I can get is satellite, having an ungodly ping, I noticed that a lot of my hit markers do work, I’ve resorted to only joining servers with friends who can vouche for me when people decide to get mad and try to kick me. The only thing i can deduce from seeing hit markers is that Dirty Bomb is client sided hit detection, instead of server sided. But as far as aimbots out of my 37 hours game time, I too have only come across 3 aimbots out of probably 40+ hackussations against a player. Most hackussations I’ve seen are targeted at people with high levels who know their weapons well, such as snipers getting frequent headshots and people getting annoyed by it. The hackussations come out and as OP said, the terrorism breaks out in the server and everybody becomes on edge when that hackussated player comes near them.

(CurryBeans) #5

Can i add some logic to this often debate of extremes. The only aimbots people ever know of are the ones that are there for trolling. People who use aimbots or ESP etc with a bit of restraint are impossible to spot by the naked eye in a game. There are plenty of them around. But they do not impact a game as much as the trolls who just ruin matches.
Its best not to think about them and get on with a game and hope the publisher/developer deals with it.

Unfortunately these debates usually degrade into a whinefest, one side thinks every good player is hacking, then you have those who like to pretend to be pro and dont believe in the existence of hackers and tell everyone on the forum how great they are :p.

I like the sentiment of the thread but I doubt it will continue to be a logical and calm debate.

DivineSeahorse I hate that sort of lag compensation, but if anyone has played Planetside 2 they know the extreme of the interpretation. Luckily, DB does not seem to be anywhere near as bad.
But ya it is a really odd feeling in game the first while you are playing with it, it does create a lot of paranoia and drove me insane in PS2.

(joekerr) #6

100% this.

Although what is funny is when you have a smart hacker and you spec them. They usually notice you are speccing (since they are smart about their hacking) and turn into total shit. They go from 50/4 to barely being able to kill anyone. After a couple minutes of speccing they often just leave the server.

(scrub_lord) #7

[quote=“CurryBeans;28051”]Can i add some logic to this often debate of extremes. The only aimbots people ever know of are the ones that are there for trolling. People who use aimbots or ESP etc with a bit of restraint are impossible to spot by the naked eye in a game. There are plenty of them around. But they do not impact a game as much as the trolls who just ruin matches.
Its best not to think about them and get on with a game and hope the publisher/developer deals with it.[/quote]

It can actually be pretty easy to spot closet hackers. Most people just don’t know what to look for.

(subtleDoll) #8

It’s not a problem to be indict of hack if you don’t use them. The only ones who fear to be charged are the cheaters. The false accusations are not a problem.

(Impeccable Lemon) #9

Actually, it is. Sure, you are most likely not to be banned if reported, but there’s still the stigma of being called a cheater. Especially if the other team blindly agrees with the hackusator.

And, to throw my two bits in, I’ve seen a grand total of two people using blatant aimbots, and one who may have been. That’s pretty good for about 80 hours played.

(watsyurdeal) #10

Actually it is an issue when you can go 30+ kills and half of less than those as deaths against people who are clearly clueless, and blame it all on hacks.

Because yea, hacks are the reason why they as players suck, and as a team have horrible comms and horrible teamwork overall. That’s the reason, I feel like it’s a weak excuse to deny that there is a problem with how they play.

(Guilte) #11

I’ve seen a total of 4 hackers, 3 of them have just been within the open beta release in Competitve Matchmaking.

As far as an ACS goes, you obviously need something better than XIGN.

(B_Montiel) #12

[quote=“CurryBeans;28051”]Can i add some logic to this often debate of extremes. The only aimbots people ever know of are the ones that are there for trolling. People who use aimbots or ESP etc with a bit of restraint are impossible to spot by the naked eye in a game. There are plenty of them around. But they do not impact a game as much as the trolls who just ruin matches.
[/quote]

Dirty Bomb is far from usual fps (cod, csgo…) in this particular part.
The thing that makes me detect cheaters is not how they behave in their aim since most of fights are going head to head with little advantage to people who are using “advanced techniques” from other games like preshoting. And objects don’t let bullet go through (from the client who is firing, important note here). That sounds a bit excessive, but wallhacks are also downed by the fact that the threat can come from so many angles and routes. Somebody “overreacting” on ambushes on a quite regular fashion would be directly spotted.
What usually makes cheaters totally obvious to me in this game is generally the number of headshot they’re able to land no matter the situation. For example, even for very experienced players, it’s almost impossible to land HS reliably when facing a skilled aura/proxy ambushing them. In my mind, it’s pretty easy to get high accuracy with smgs and assault rifles in this game. But strong HS/hits is something I tend to consider as a good and quite reliable clue.

To me, the biggest problem DB has to face right now is that there’s seems to be a good part of players coming from other fps who use to witch-hunt for legitimate reasons. In CS:GO, matchmaking is working well but it’s crowded with hackers that ruin the experience in 1/10 games. VAC is good on CS:GO but its reaction time is quite slow. Quite a good part of DB newcomers still can’t get their bearings on what is possible in the game and what’s not. That’s more or less the same idea for the players who claim that loadout cards are ruining the balance on top of everything else.

SD and nexon need time to figure out the best options for the anti-cheat. They know good enough that xign is dreadful. But working/developing/integrating an anticheat is something very hard to do. You can’t built such tools in two weeks.

(D'@athi) #13

@TO: Ffs stop living in the past, also been playing q2 and even q1, and other stuff before that online. And we had a probably quite good hack-programmer in the community.
Difference compared to today is, he didn’t sell the hacks for money (at least as far he told us) and told us about them, what was possible, what not, and about the weakpoints he used. And the be honest, he even played without hacks and was quite reasonable. Still couldn’t get rid of him.

Whatever, nowadays. cheats are some kind of pacifiers for the nooby-kids without social life, getting rejected by everyone else, and trying everything to stand up tall at least in a game. These kids seem to be paying some money for an average hack, not even talking about the “real” (<hahah) pros sharing their price-money with their hack-programmers.

And yes, THE cheaters we all encouter atm, WE all see everyday, are the obvious ones, even to retarded to hide their hacks. Now thats a revelation, isnt’t it? NOT? Uhm…
Yes there will be undetectabel and with this demo-system on top even unseeable private-hacks around, but i guess 95% of the players won’t encounter these.
But the real problem to the player at the moment are “half”-smart ppl putting their public hack on s’n’d and 100% (which everyone could use, but cojones, you know, some ppl think of themselves beein golder than 14…).
If these were got rid of, most of us would have a better experience. The rest… well you know… cs:go rated - master guardians aren’t probably that good… surprise… surprise…

(avidCow) #14

These problems could be alleviated to a great extent if SD bother to fix the demo system.

(Bangtastic) #15

A skilled player gives you a lot of hs. Actually it is a lot easier than you might think.

To be fair in cs go matchmaking there is more to gain. Whenever I played MM and there was a hacker, most of the time it was a booster (means to boost others elo for money). Or ppl who hack get a high rank and then sell the account for money. You can’t say this for DB yet.

I think most of the players accuse others cause of hacking because it is the easiest reason they can come up with, which also supports their self-view, when they can’t imagine that it is possible. Whenever someone calls a decent player a hacker, the message implied is: It is impossible to be so good, because I am already the “best”. When there are no cheaters around, Im convinced that hackusations are abused to support their own position which says: Im a good player and there are no better ones than me. Thus leads to more false accusations.

It is sad that players destroy their own game experience, when they are paranoid of hackers.

To notice a hacker which aims to destroy others game experience, you don’t need any fps experience to tell he is hacking. Even with demo function you can’t be sure. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between hackers or really good players. And when you can’t notice it, why bother anyway.

I Dont want to say there are no hackers at all, Im well aware of some hackers but it isnt that big of a deal!
After years of playing, in different games, hackusations are often the same. Totally agree with OP.

(NotaCobra) #16

[quote=“D’@athi;28274”]
Whatever, nowadays. cheats are some kind of pacifiers for the nooby-kids without social life, getting rejected by everyone else, kenever over and trying everything to stand up tall at least in a game. These kids seem whenever to be paying some money for an average hack, not even talking about the “real” (<hahah) pros sharing their price-money with their hack-programmers.[/quote]

[quote=“D’@athi;28274”]
Yes there will be undetectabel and with this demo-system on top even unseeable private-hacks around, but i guess 95% of the players won’t encounter these.[/quote][quote=“D’@athi;28274”]
But the real problem to the player at the moment are “half”-smart ppl putting their public hack on s’n’d and 100% (which everyone could use, but cojones, you know, some ppl think of themselves beein golder than 14…).[/quote][quote=“D’@athi;28274”]
If these were got rid of, most of us would have a better experience. The rest… well you know… cs:go rated - master guardians aren’t probably that good… surprise… surprise…[/quote]

Could you… try reposting this?
just these paragraphs in particular I could barely understand, sorry if I seem rude, I just don’t know what you mean.

(D'@athi) #17

Dunno if trolling or not, but ok.

What i mean? You can’t catch them all, especially when it comes to ranked “fame”, prizemoney and stuff like this. Tour-de-France anyone? :slight_smile:
But you can get rid of most of those blatant ones, ragehacking with public hacks to punish the community for whatever went wrong with them. And yes, there are many of the later ones, probably not on a level of cs:go, but stil you can spot enough everyday.

(lavaJukebox) #18

The kill-cam, with the ghost and the kill-shot-trace make it very easy to spot out aimbotters. And when you go in spectator mode its so OBVIOUS its not even funny.

I do not agree with the comments that aimbotters are impossible to detect thats not true at all especially for DB.

But yeah this game needs an in-game player reporting system. That would make reporting alot easier.
The vote kicking doesnt always work.

(Nail) #19

problem is, while spectating the crosshair is off target, you can’t actually see where it’s pointed

(Ghosthree3) #20

There needs to be a disclaimer while spectating until it’s fixed. It’s completely broken right now.