Yup. If you want CS gameplay go play CS. Back in the day it played a lot more like DB than it does today. I want DB to remain DB even if there are a couple annoying facets like jumping shotguns that connect a bit more than they should compared to most other weapons in the game when you jump.
again about jump shooting
Xenithos
(Xenithos)
#23
Ahem - Raises controversial flag of sadness -
Jump shooting has always been a tactic in this game. Just because some cannot handle it, and or some are very good at it doesn’t mean that the tactic should be crapped on. It’s a unique part of DB and it’s tight hipfire aim that I’ve come to enjoy, despite it being a somewhat broken system.
TBH - I don’t really care, I want it to be reverted in all honesty. But I can see why people don’t like it.
Basically, @Dracorion 's already said the gist of what I feel on the topic.
KUST_LunarTM
(KUST__LunarTM)
#24
To be fair, I’m usually pretty fine with anything that happens as long as it isn’t gamebreaking. If any change was to be made, maybe increase the spread on shotguns when jumping.
[quote=“Amerika;185179”]@“Sir Rexman” One thing that needs to be factored in is seeing the Proxy running in and not firing. Just like how you know a Fragger is going to throw a grenade by them not shooting or having a gun out you are tipped off well ahead of time by Proxy’s not shooting when you see them running towards a fight. You know exactly what they are going to do. You have the option to put her down quickly after long jumping away from the group or you can body block the mine so she can’t shoot it and hope your teammates actually move before it’s armed. I very rarely ever get hit by a shot mine simply due to it being completely ineffective if you have fairly decent awareness and react accordingly.
A lot of the people who get hit by those mines could definitely improve their awareness and how they respond. Mines in general are a little crazy right now with how fast they explode which makes it hard to get past them without dying even if you did what you need to do to counter them (finding them via sight or listening). But Proxy’s throwing mines and shooting them is viewed by me as a “for the lulz” tactic of people wanting giggle kills more than being effective.[/quote]
Mine shooting can be a very effective strategy in serious fights. My most used tactic with that strategy is when I’m weak and being chased. I’ll lay one around a corner, then shoot it as soon as the enemy turns the corner right behind me. Works great on pursuing Phantoms 
It’s also great when you’re getting mowed down from a specific area, most likely a single hallways with ~5 people on an aura station. Your gun isn’t going to take down both the station and those 5 enemies even if you sneak around them. That’s when you sneak up into their station, lay a mine and shoot it, then mop up whoever survived the explosion. Easy Ace right there.
inscrutableShow
(inscrutableShow)
#25
While I agree that bunnyhopping is infuriating to play against, you have to remember, this is a game that focuses on jumping. You’re literally supposed to jump almost all of the time. All you people saying that shooting while in midair should be nerfed/removed are trying to remove the versatility of a core aspect of the game. If you do a spectacular jump combo into the middle of a fight, but have to wait till you hit the ground to start shooting, you’re already at a disadvantage. Your argument is not much better than all the noobs after Phantom’s release. “Jumpshots OP pls nerf.” If y’all keep whining about it, they’ll eventually step in wth their infamous nerf hammer and ruin that aspect of the game. If you want CS;GO, go play it.
Amerika
(Amerika)
#26
[quote=“KUST__LunarTM;185245”]To be fair, I’m usually pretty fine with anything that happens as long as it isn’t gamebreaking. If any change was to be made, maybe increase the spread on shotguns when jumping.
[quote=“Amerika;185179”]@“Sir Rexman” One thing that needs to be factored in is seeing the Proxy running in and not firing. Just like how you know a Fragger is going to throw a grenade by them not shooting or having a gun out you are tipped off well ahead of time by Proxy’s not shooting when you see them running towards a fight. You know exactly what they are going to do. You have the option to put her down quickly after long jumping away from the group or you can body block the mine so she can’t shoot it and hope your teammates actually move before it’s armed. I very rarely ever get hit by a shot mine simply due to it being completely ineffective if you have fairly decent awareness and react accordingly.
A lot of the people who get hit by those mines could definitely improve their awareness and how they respond. Mines in general are a little crazy right now with how fast they explode which makes it hard to get past them without dying even if you did what you need to do to counter them (finding them via sight or listening). But Proxy’s throwing mines and shooting them is viewed by me as a “for the lulz” tactic of people wanting giggle kills more than being effective.[/quote]
Mine shooting can be a very effective strategy in serious fights. My most used tactic with that strategy is when I’m weak and being chased. I’ll lay one around a corner, then shoot it as soon as the enemy turns the corner right behind me. Works great on pursuing Phantoms
It’s also great when you’re getting mowed down from a specific area, most likely a single hallways with ~5 people on an aura station. Your gun isn’t going to take down both the station and those 5 enemies even if you sneak around them. That’s when you sneak up into their station, lay a mine and shoot it, then mop up whoever survived the explosion. Easy Ace right there.[/quote]
But that doesn’t work on competent players very often. If I’m chasing a Proxy who went on the run I’m listening for mine drops which are pretty easy to hear even with gunfire going constantly. Just have to listen for the landing noise and know the timing on throws and pick whether or not to rush the proxy or let her go.
Same for the room scenario. If one or two players in a fight have the ability to be aware of other people than just the ones they are shooting at currently then that Proxy is in for a bad day if they try to suicide mine.
KUST_LunarTM
(KUST__LunarTM)
#27
[quote=“Amerika;185248”][quote=“KUST__LunarTM;185245”]To be fair, I’m usually pretty fine with anything that happens as long as it isn’t gamebreaking. If any change was to be made, maybe increase the spread on shotguns when jumping.
[quote=“Amerika;185179”]@“Sir Rexman” One thing that needs to be factored in is seeing the Proxy running in and not firing. Just like how you know a Fragger is going to throw a grenade by them not shooting or having a gun out you are tipped off well ahead of time by Proxy’s not shooting when you see them running towards a fight. You know exactly what they are going to do. You have the option to put her down quickly after long jumping away from the group or you can body block the mine so she can’t shoot it and hope your teammates actually move before it’s armed. I very rarely ever get hit by a shot mine simply due to it being completely ineffective if you have fairly decent awareness and react accordingly.
A lot of the people who get hit by those mines could definitely improve their awareness and how they respond. Mines in general are a little crazy right now with how fast they explode which makes it hard to get past them without dying even if you did what you need to do to counter them (finding them via sight or listening). But Proxy’s throwing mines and shooting them is viewed by me as a “for the lulz” tactic of people wanting giggle kills more than being effective.[/quote]
Mine shooting can be a very effective strategy in serious fights. My most used tactic with that strategy is when I’m weak and being chased. I’ll lay one around a corner, then shoot it as soon as the enemy turns the corner right behind me. Works great on pursuing Phantoms
It’s also great when you’re getting mowed down from a specific area, most likely a single hallways with ~5 people on an aura station. Your gun isn’t going to take down both the station and those 5 enemies even if you sneak around them. That’s when you sneak up into their station, lay a mine and shoot it, then mop up whoever survived the explosion. Easy Ace right there.[/quote]
But that doesn’t work on competent players very often. If I’m chasing a Proxy who went on the run I’m listening for mine drops which are pretty easy to hear even with gunfire going constantly. Just have to listen for the landing noise and know the timing on throws and pick whether or not to rush the proxy or let her go.
Same for the room scenario. If one or two players in a fight have the ability to be aware of other people than just the ones they are shooting at currently then that Proxy is in for a bad day if they try to suicide mine.[/quote]
True. It’s really all just situational. Usually if I’m being chased long enough for me to set a mine trap, it’s usually a katana only Phantom, lol. As for the station situation (lol), I’ll usually wait for my teammates to spawn to distract them.
But against competent players, it’s a struggle. Hell, I’d hate to go up against myself. I’m really audibly sensitive, so I usually hear players before they get to me, especially considering walls do not limit sounds. Combat Arms can get nasty on Oil Rig when you can hear your opponents through the floor and can track which direction they are approaching from 
frolicsomeCrane
(frolicsomeCrane)
#28
Tbh, I feel like the jump shooting gig should be reduced for automatic weapons and general rifles y’know but at the same time I feel like it should be increased for shotguns.
Overall I feel like shotguns can get away with a lot of things while other weapons just have their aim completely screwed by doing a wall jump for example.
RyePanda
(RyePanda)
#30
So everyone would be at a constant head level or spamming crouch while walking around corners? The mobility of Dirty Bomb would be wiped away as soon as you got into combat, as everyone settles into walking. The ability to charge into combat off of a jump is really cool, and I’d hate to see it totally removed from the game.
Glot
(Glot)
#31
- in quake you can jump and shoot (without any penalty), but if you choose to do so you become a VERY easy target to track. If you jump in quake, you get a rocket in the face, you get picked up by shaft, or railed down to pieces.
- in Dirtybomb if you jump you actually become a more difficult target to track. Especially if you spam walljumps like an idiot in close quarters.
And i hate things how they are now in DB and i think Quake did a better job against constant mid-fight jumps. No one ever jumps mid fight in quake.
I think that adding randomness to jump-shots is a poor bandage for the real problem.
And the real problem is that constant jump-spamming turns the jumper into a very jerky and unreliable target. Because wall jumping is very inconsistent (again comparing to quake trickjumping)
I think that changes need to be made to how a jumper’s trajectory works.
i.e. the more spam jumps we make - the more easy trajectory we get.
XavienX
(XavienX)
#32
That’s a plus for them noob Vassilis. For dedicated, loving and experienced players of DB? Hellno.
neverplayseriou
(neverplayseriou)
#33
@Xavien and what experienced players jump rather than crouch in combat?
Szakalot
(Szakalot)
#36
@Glottis-3D the main difference is headshots in DB. Since that is the primary way to deal good damage, jumping becomes a very effective tactic for dodging headshots.
nokiII
(nokiII)
#37
You also get the Lightning Gun in quake which basically just takes all your control from you if you get hit with it mid air.
Glot
(Glot)
#39
and also we have viewkick in DB. which is also a way to avoid headshots.
While viewkick was nerfed several pacthes ago, jump-spam wasnt nerfed and the difference is huge.
for my taste - viewkick is a skill based way of HS avoiding, and jump-spam is anti-skill way of the same thing.
I just do not like this shitty spam.
Amerika
(Amerika)
#40
Q3 doesn’t work exactly like you described in typical fights outside of the lack of jumping when firing outside of getting angles on shots. You don’t eat more rockets or more LG when jumping (when going up jump pads, sure…but not regular ground jumping). And people absolutely run through a room firing rockets strafe jumping all the way. And Q3 has WAYYYYYYYYYYYY more jumping in general, velocity, verticality and things to keep track of compared to DB. So I’m confused by your description of how fight mechanics work in that game.
If somebody jumps over your head in DB all you do is jump forward and land before they do, turn and fire. If you’re trying to track them as they jump over you then you are not playing the situation correctly.
People who jump are trying to raise their TTK so that they can buy time for teammates to show up, to hopefully get lucky with their shots that won’t be accurate at all when firing midair or are simply panicing. Shotguns make it easier to hit when jumping when in CQC because, well, every gun will hit when you’re pretty close jumping or not due to range. It’s just that shotguns hit more often since the pellets produce a larger area to hit with.
I don’t want feature creep in regards to toning down movement in DB to turn it into a bland slow game like what happened with CS, UrT and others. What makes Dirty Bomb unique in a sea of “me too” military shooters has a lot to do with it having a movement system that isn’t ridiculously restrictive when you need to move and encourages reactive gameplay instead of gameplay that can always be perfectly measured. If I want the same situations to play out consistently over and over against I’ll go play CS. If I want encounters to be wildly different constantly I’ll play Q3. If I want a solid mix of those I play DB.