after scrimming this game a bit

(syku) #41

You don’t even need to know when to start to cook the grenade, you can just keep it cooked forever

(solt.) #42

You don’t even need to know when to start to cook the grenade, you can just keep it cooked forever
[/quote]

This is simply false.

(Zenity) #43

To keep cooking it repeatedly, or to keep it cooked forever, are two very different things. Timing still matters.

Of course the grenades are really powerful, but avoiding situations which make you vulnerable to it will always be a part of the game (until Fragger drops out of the meta). Actual grenade spam in this game is essentially non-existent compared to ET, so in the end it comes down to a matter of preference rather than a simple “this is broken/OP”.

(solt.) #44

This.

Personally I think it’s the fact that Fragger presently (and this will change as Mercs release) is the only character who has access to an (via cooking) on-demand explosive. This creates a really sizable difference between Fragger and anyone else (even Skyhammer’s indoor grenade).

The mechanic of:

Throw grenade
Enemy sees grenade
Enemy chooses: advance/retreat/stay (die)

Is very different from:

Cook grenade
Throw grenade
Enemy dies

(phaZon) #45

[quote=“irisRenegade;12162”]This forum is full of whiners who haven’t played RTCW or ET.

Cooking grenades is fine, as is revive invuln. [/quote]

hate to burst all of you die hard wolf:et fans bubbles, but just because it was in an obscure, not very popular game 12 years ago doesn’t mean it’s a good mechanic

i’m sure ill recieve some flame but that game was definitely not as popular as battlefield/quake/cs/cod 1 & 2 at the time of release, and you’re lying to yourself if you are disagreeing

i really don’t get why people keep bringing wolf et up; its not like they are direct comparisons like 1.6/source/go…they play completely differently…its more like comparing a game like combat arms to counter strike…similar gametype/basic mechanics, but the gameplay itself is much different

its really sad to see people argue what i’m bringing up, these changes are so obviously beneficial to anyone with some sort of skill…the constant raising of ttk also isn’t beneficial to be honest, in a competitive setting if you get the drop on two people you should be able to kill them and right now that really isn’t the case

but keyboard warriors be keyboard warrios

(INF3RN0) #46

Agree on some points, though I have some differing opinions on how to solve them.

(1) Gibbing should take less bullets. You’ll usually expend more bullets on the gib than anything, and when they get revived anyway it’s frustrating. If gibbing damage somehow lowered the max revive hp that might be alright as well. The revive shield is fine with me, but perhaps having it be a 50-75% dmg reduction (until canceled) might be better. I’m open to ideas on this subject, though reviving shouldn’t be nerfed to the point that it’s not worthwhile. The pocket medic strategy is valid by me, though I would like to see a bit more risk involved.

(2) Frag grenade AoE should be reduced with cook time. The reason why you can easily land big nades is the ability to cook them for instant impact, which comes at no penalty. I would personally like there to be a skill curve, which I think can be achieved by requiring you to land your nade perfectly when cooked. Pineapple juggler perk would also become useful as a result.

(3) ARs and SMGs are really quite balanced. SMGs will out DPS a rifle at close range in most cases, considering the dodge speed and RoF. ARs have reduced fall-off however which makes them good mid-long range, but are in no way weak at close range. I don’t really feel that these need to be tweaked atm.

(4) LMG needs more recoil as it is too easy to land shots consistently at all ranges.

I’d be happy to post highlights from MM/pugs to demonstrate these points if wanted as well.

(phaZon) #47

i just feel that personally the ttk can be reduced a bit, there’s too much emphasis on the team insofar that there’s not a lot of room for really good aim players to outaim 2v1 or if you get the drop on 2 players chances are you wont kill them both

and i know a lot of people are gonna not like that, which i understand; higher ttk games are more forgiving for weaker individual players

(einstyle) #48

I’d argue it’s the other way around

(god1) #49

Kind of but not really.
Higher TTK decreases the impact of luck in the game while putting a heavier emphasis on general gamesense and strategy which are skills just like raw aim is, some people are naturally good with the mouse and some people are just always one step ahead of the opponent.

(Zenity) #50

Higher TTK favours tracking aim and team strategy, lower TTK favours twitch aim and positional tactics. None requires more skill than the other.

(INF3RN0) #51

With the right positioning/call outs I feel like you can easily get multi-kills on most mercs, assuming you’re landing mostly headshots. Being able to land headshots consistently is obviously going to take time for people to master, but if you’ve ever hit all headshots onto someone with most any weapon (in its comfortzone) then you’ll know just how fast you can kill. It’s easier to win a head on 2v1+ as fragger without much forethought or consistent aim, but I’ve seen a lot of multis happen in high level pugs- even amongst the SMG medics. I played the prev SD titles a lot so I know what the long TTK feels like, but since that’s not everyone’s cup of tea I can live with the compromise that we have in DB. One thing you’ll hopefully see soon enough is how much easier it is to get multis with friendly-fire on. A rush down a narrow corridor suddenly becomes an easy 5man when they are all shooting each other in the back or trying not to hit their teammates.

(delightfulIncident) #52

[left]My opinion:

I think taht nades must be cookable … but must necessite more skill to get a kill. Also, they must be a little more “evadable” by target. A good timed nade well placed must give a kill, but i aggre that at this time, the nade kill is too easy.
The ways: augment the cooking time and augment the flying time (to already can launch a long distance nade) ; reduce the radius damage and/or decrease damage over distance more important (high damage closed, but less damage at distance).
In return, perhaps give a quickly regen of the nade.

About the invulnerability on medic rez, i think it is necessary to have it. But the idea to have 3s invulnerability without possibility to do an action, only move, is a good idea.

IMO, Aura AOE give too much regen per second. Perhaps the regen per second must be nerfed, and give in return a little quickly regen of the heal AOE. The same as the nade, less efficiency, but often.[/left]

(Szakalot) #53

[quote=“INF3RN0;12208”]Agree on some points, though I have some differing opinions on how to solve them.

(1) Gibbing should take less bullets. You’ll usually expend more bullets on the gib than anything, and when they get revived anyway it’s frustrating. If gibbing damage somehow lowered the max revive hp that might be alright as well. The revive shield is fine with me, but perhaps having it be a 50-75% dmg reduction (until canceled) might be better. I’m open to ideas on this subject, though reviving shouldn’t be nerfed to the point that it’s not worthwhile. The pocket medic strategy is valid by me, though I would like to see a bit more risk involved.[/quote]

Best way to solve gibbing is to

  • increase HS multplier for gibbed targets
  • decrease revived character’s HP if almost gibbed
  • normalize HP of all incapacitated mercs (200hp Rhino lying on the ground - no thx!): would be fine if it all went down to 80hp Aura has.

(2) Frag grenade AoE should be reduced with cook time. The reason why you can easily land big nades is the ability to cook them for instant impact, which comes at no penalty. I would personally like there to be a skill curve, which I think can be achieved by requiring you to land your nade perfectly when cooked. Pineapple juggler perk would also become useful as a result.

I’m gonna argue strongly against this one : )

Variable AoE makes for a very inconsistent feel of the weapon. As the victim you can’t predict how long the nade was cooked - one time you’ll get blown to pieces; another time you’ll come unscathed. Sure it would increase the skill ceiling for nades, but would be really frustrating to use. Also makes no sense in that ‘common sense’ kind of way :tongue:

Either lowering max damage to make it not-OHK but more area denial, or lowering frag velocity, or increasing cook time would all add to the skill requirement. Also make nades not-gib enemies except some ‘right on the spot’ scenarios.
And prevent perpetual cooking & switch weapon.

(3) ARs and SMGs are really quite balanced. SMGs will out DPS a rifle at close range in most cases, considering the dodge speed and RoF. ARs have reduced fall-off however which makes them good mid-long range, but are in no way weak at close range. I don’t really feel that these need to be tweaked atm.

(4) LMG needs more recoil as it is too easy to land shots consistently at all ranges.

I’d be happy to post highlights from MM/pugs to demonstrate these points if wanted as well.

Totally agree, AR & SMGs are in a really good spot now. And yeah, LMG is little too easy to use. (considering the already awesome nades)

(dramaticScene) #54

So much drivel in this thread.

Revives work well.
Nades work well.
Weapons are fine.

When did FPS games starting going the way of MMOs with people crying about nerf this nerf that relentlessly. It’s pathetic.

The obvious thing that’s working in this game is people who can aim are killing people who can’t aim and people who think are killing people who can’t.

The above takes it to the next level of stupid…

It’s a team based game. If you are on your own and a guy is getting revived you SHOULD be losing.

The irony of you bringing up actual matches to cite this problem is immense. Matches should mean a lot more teamplay. Cross fires, med rushes, strategic timed nades/airstrikes…if you play alone you should get boned. Working as intended.

(RuleofBooKz) #55

well dramatic i dont like a lot of what is said by people i consider noobs, too new to know better / anything or whatever but i will defend their right to come here, mix with the community and engage in discussion - thats how those with potential will find decent info, advice and learn something of value

but yeah really silly stuff / folks just makes u want to throw ur hands in the air and just say fcuk it go fcuk yourself and fcuk off you fuckwits im over your fcuking noise. Which is ok. Perfectly valid response. Not judging.

But once its vented, its always nice to be able to come back, have a nice sit down and a decent natter cause its beta - stuff is in the game but if there is a time to nip and tuck or tweak things its now. better to get it sorted now than put up wit hit on release right?

thats why we are on the forums having a say.

(dramaticScene) #56

That’s great, but it’s clearly demonstrating people are unaware of what a team based fps actually is, which is sad.

(fragon) #57

I disagree with all the points made in the origin post.
-Revive Shield is necessary, without it, player who got revived will go down in 5 bullets again+it gives more importance to gibbing.
-95% of the weapons are balanced atm, little more tweaking on LMG and SG and we’re in good spot.
-About fragger’s nade,its fine, the only thing bothers me right now in game is the fact fragger can throw his nade farther than nader can shoot his grenade out of GL.

Only obvious OP thing right now in the game is the Healing Station[especially with the augments]. It should be nerf either way. just some question for thinking, if med pack can’t heal you while u get shot why would healing station do that?

(bubblesKeyboard) #58

The bottom of the line is you can’t balance mercs without all 20 mercs being in the equation

(RuleofBooKz) #59

so you cant make changes to the product until you have the finished product at which point its finisged and requires no more changes?