after scrimming this game a bit

(Eox) #21

I have to agree at 100% with precooked nades. It’s just not counterable, whatever happens if the guy cooked it and have juste an half decent aiming and anticipation skill you’ll die no matter what. And this just by practicing a few hours. Just add this to the fact that Fragger have a powerful primary weapon and can use some very powerful secondaries, and the thing pretty much end with death in a can. In EU servers I encounter more and more teams with like three Fraggers in it, and this is not a coincidence if you want my opinion.

Allowing us to be able to flee the nade, or at least escape a good part of the damage would be nice. Remove cooking, increase splash radius to balance that, if necessary make it faster to detonate and remove or tune down the grenade indicator, while making the model slightly more visible or bigger itself. “Stealth nades” could be a thing, after all if you’re not paying attention enough to the grenade thrown you deserve to die.

(Szakalot) #22

[quote=“Humbug;11911”][quote=“fubar;11880”][quote=“RuleofBooKz;11861”]
yes but the silly idea of giving players a wall hack to see where the enemy are has not been around 15 years unless u were a hacker. the ability to see the enemy thru walls, start cooking a nade, and whe nur enemies are just about to round a corner and see you they are already dead from your nade to their face. Wow what a skillful play!!
[/quote]

No, but we had sounds and could listen to footsteps. Something every recent game in the past 6 years seems to be lacking. Seriously, what’s up with that? Do they intentionally have awful positional sound in games these days?

Honestly. Nades aren’t a big deal. Cooking nades even less so. Just because you have the ability to and can, doesn’t always make it the right move either. Not to mention the chance of actually having vasili pokeballs laying about in a high pressure comp match is… very slim to none at all. Timing, prediction and general gamesense are still a skill a lot of people seem to lack or even undervalue, all things that come into nade play.

I feel like the majority of you people, that whine so much about spam wouldn’t last a minute in a proper ET or RtCW game. Have you guys missed the fact that everyone had cookable nades? Every. Single. Person. On both teams. Engineers and soldiers even had 4 of them! (8, in rtcw) all the while we had airstrikes, artilleries, rifles, panzers, landmines and other shenanigans going about as well. [/quote]

In ET maps were way bigger and not so narrow and it took 1 second longer to cook a grenade. It just wasn’t as powerful as in DB[/quote]

if you look at the maps; they really weren’t that much bigger. Just more open

(RuleofBooKz) #23

we absolutely want to make the game about skill (with guns) and less about spam. atm the nade is spam. Even the fact that it blows u to bits so u cant get a rez. it all adds up to instant win op. balance it please

ET also didnt have a class of engy that can almost instantly plant and defuse. or wall hack devices. or half the nonsense that DB has. u have to make care when doing comparisons.

(Eox) #24

[quote=“RuleofBooKz;11924”]we absolutely want to make the game about skill (with guns) and less about spam. atm the nade is spam. Even the fact that it blows u to bits so u cant get a rez. it all adds up to instant win op. balance it please

ET also didnt have a class of engy that can almost instantly plant and defuse. or wall hack devices. or half the nonsense that DB has. u have to make care when doing comparisons.[/quote]

Spam is the repetition of the same action again and again. I can hardly name two nades in your pocket thrown in succession a spam. It’s OP, but it’s not spam.

(RuleofBooKz) #25

u havent been in game with 3+ fraggers just continually throwing nades to get kills i take it?

they dont even need to go get ammo it just automatically puts another nade in their pocket.

its spam. that requiring no skill.

(syku) #26

Nades right now requires absolutely no skill to use and will always guarantee at least 1 kill, teams will also be running atleast 2 freaggers so they will almost always have 2-4 guaranteed kills available, make them uncookable and have the focus be on the gunplay not the ezkills.

(son!) #27

As much as it pains me to say it (because they are so damn fun) the fragger nades are really too strong. Agreed that either don’t let them be cooked, or let them be cooked but you can’t switch weapons to cancel the cook. --in competitive i’d like to see only one fragger allowed too. similar to tf2 in limiting your highest damage class to one per team (demoman)

SMG aura is too good. Station is fine, but aura should be shotty or some other semi-auto only. Let saw be the medic with ranged fragging ability, aura really doesn’t need it nor should have it.

(Fana) #28

I would rather see the damage reduced significantly (ie. treat the grenades as debuffs rather than straight up kill tools) before removing cooking. However, grenades are one of the few things that can deal with revive trains and healing stations at the moment, so we’d need some sort of nerf to revives to go with the grenade nerf (I personally think reviving should be an ability with cooldowns, like everything else).

(strawberryJacket) #29

I disagree with those suggestions.

  1. Fragger is OP but making his nades uncookable isnt a good idea, they simply need to be harder to use.

  2. There need to be a ress shield, but you shouldnt be able to move on it.

  3. Lets not forget about damage drop off, m4 is better at killing people from long range than crotzni. We can argue about timik-47 being weak but m4 isnt weaker than smg’s.

(flameChicken) #30

I do believe the Timik-47 needs a buff in damage… I do not mind that it is inaccurate but it just feels underpowered at the moment.

(KangaJoo) #31

The rez protection is ridiculous with or without a movement/firing penalty. The reason it’s in the game is to accommodate medics that can’t figure out if it’s a good time to revive or if reviving would be suicide for one or both players. At low level pub play this usually isn’t a problem since medics tend to not pay much attention to their teammates but if you play any pug against even a half decent team, it’s always abused in the ways the OP mentioned.

In my opinion, the devs should implement the changes phaZon mentioned and should also lower the amount of HP the guy getting revived has based on how close he was to being finished. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve killed a guy, continued shooting at him to finish him, and then he gets revived and I don’t have any bullets to actually kill him. Again, it seems like a lot of people don’t think this is a problem because they only play pubs but as soon as you start matchmaking these mechanics really start to get abused.

(smartIsland) #32

Y’all realize sniper headshot is instant uncounterable unrezable as soon as you come around a corner too right?

Nades are fine, I wouldn’t change a thing with them. K121 is a whole nother story

(smartIsland) #33

I meant to say 5 k121 fraggers spamming nades is a problem

(Ceres) #34

[quote=“Humbug;11911”]

In ET maps were way bigger and not so narrow and it took 1 second longer to cook a grenade. It just wasn’t as powerful as in DB[/quote]

I take it you’ve never actually competed in ET? The maps in ET are not bigger and the choke points are well known so it’s kind of obvious where you nade, unlike in this game where people go wherever the fuck they want. Yes, the nades in ET are still very powerful, especially on respawns where you can take out 2-3 people with a single nade (You can even time the respawn to nade perfectly, something impossible in DB with these random respawns)

With that being said, Fragger’s nade is still powerful and maybe the damage should be lowered just a tiny bit. However, if you get hit in the face with one, you should die. That’s just how it has to be.

EDIT: Uncounterable are the sniper’s horrible wallhack and his 1 shot kills.

(Zenity) #35

I’m wondering, is this a feeling shared by those of you who are former RTCW/ET competitive players? I’ve watched some competitive matchmaking on streams and so far I have not seen anything out of the ordinary really. Actually I’m pretty sure I’ve seen far more excessive revive trains in ET, and that was part of the gameplay by design.

(RuleofBooKz) #36

yes the revive mechanic and how the medic and teammates work around their teammates getting that couple of secs of invulnerability is about complexity and was worked into general play strategy.

A bit like with FF enabled u would work into your movement in combat to have enemy teammates fumble over each other unable to shoot you for fear of getting team damage. but because atm FF is NOT enabled that level of complexity is missing.

So predominantly, as opposed to the above FF thing, the res thing was an additional movement strat for the medic to work into their gameplay whe nin combat

Let us not forget a good part of having a medic do rez, and do it well, is that it keeps the game flowing faster - less getting knocked over, no rez, wait a few or maybe more than a few secs then respawn then run forwards again etc

As for opposing a medic the risk vs reward to gib that downed player so no res vs trying to get a bead on that new threat etc etc complexity. if its spray at enemy, knock them over, oh they look like getting a res! better just keep spraying - well thats pretty boring.

From what i can gather ppl complaining about medic rez paddle rates and the very short rez shield just are not good enuf players to get the above - they just want to keep spraying bullets until all are fallen over, or they are, then its respawn! and do over - just like in CoD! yawn

(Szakalot) #37

[quote=“ChinaRep;12074”]

In my opinion, the devs should implement the changes phaZon mentioned and should also lower the amount of HP the guy getting revived has based on how close he was to being finished. [/quote]

This.

Also: HP across the board should be normalized for incapacitated players. its annoying as hell to have to spend 15+ bullets on a downed fragger (if you don’t have an angle on the head, or have to keap moving)

(irisRenegade) #38

This forum is full of whiners who haven’t played RTCW or ET.

Cooking grenades is fine, as is revive invuln.

(Humbug) #39

the only people who complain about the res shield are those, who never played medic and just want 2 free kills… without the shield reviving will be useless

(RuleofBooKz) #40

cooking nades is fine, getting the free team wallhack to kno when to start the cook, not so fine :wink: