It’s already very hard to pass a shuffle even if one is needed, between new players who don’t know what the pageup button is and people on the winning team who want to have an easy win. Considering it’s usually the losing team that calls the vote, and a more “experienced” player at that who knows how to vote, kicking them would make the match even worse.
Punishing someone for trying to shuffle is just a bad idea. No, the system isn’t great, but the amount of times I’ve seen unnecessary shuffles pass has been so low that it’s well worth the tradeoff for the amount of times it’s been useful. It’s pretty much the best it can be in its current state.
Besides, not like being shuffled is that bad anyways. It’s a minor inconvenience at best, but in a public match where you’re not playing in some premade, who cares really.
Since SD doesn’t care for Fun in their Game i deleted the Game, mostly because of Vote Spam. I mentioned already that during my Streams there wasn’t one Match without Spam of Votes or accusations.
Well i must be hard to enter a Number in a Code for SD…
It happens all the time in EU servers. 95% of shuffle are unnecessary, and sometimes it’s just worst after. Why the 2nd shuffle would be better than the 1st one which occur at the beginning? And why can’t you wait the next map and its auto-shuffle?
If really you are rekt, the party will end very soon (as SD vs OCB ^^) and you’ll get a new map with another balance. And if you consider it isn’t enough, maybe there is just too strong (or too low) players for you on this server? Then go on another server instead of ruining matches of other players.
No it’s a good idea as 95% are just abusive and useless. Anyway, he was kidding
During last year, I think I tried to shuffle only one time. Votes must be removed, they are useless and toxic, except for trolls. They just ruin the Stopwatch experience.
When I do half of the attack (or defence), I don’t want to be switch in defence, NEVER, even if I’m loosing and/or stomp.
This is a game based on objectives and to do better than the other team in 2nd round. Then respect people playing like this as it’s just the spirit of this game. We really don’t need a button “ruin this current match”.
Yeah, that’s what I was getting at; new players are more likely to value end of match rewards more highly than veteran players. So once they understand shuffling will result in forfeiture of those rewards, they might be discouraged from requesting shuffles unless they truly feel it is necessary to balance a match.
So this is how I envision it working ( from the perspective of the player requesting shuffle ):
Request shuffle.
Game message: “Requesting a shuffle, regardless of outcome, will cause you to forfeit 75% of your match rewards, are you sure you want to shuffle? Yes / No”
End of match rewards screen is exact same as it is now, showing you what you normally would’ve earned, then below that ( in red ): “Shuffle penalty ( -75% ):” with a new total.
As I said, for experienced players, end of match experience and credit rewards doesn’t really matter, but for a new player, this might be enough to discourage a shuffle.
Additionally, no, the option to shuffle should not be removed or restricted to high level players. Sometimes, matches need to be shuffled. Should a match be shuffled in the last two minutes because the losing team had two or three players drop out to avoid a loss, leaving the match at 6 v 4? No. But there are other times when early leavers leave a match 6 v 4 within the first two minutes.
As a possible additions:
Shuffle requests made in the first 45 s. have penalties waived.
If a match is restarted immediately following a shuffle, penalties are waived.
Easier solution : Just remove this bullshit votes. Try it 1 or 2 months in PUBs, you’ll see everything will be way better. Just allow rented servers to enable it if they wish.
Matches that need shuffles but can’t pass them usually end very badly though. Most of the time several people on the losing side will just leave, turning the entire match into a total stomp, which isn’t fun for anyone, and is much worse than the hassle of shuffling.
I get unnecessary shuffles are annoying, but like I said, it’s not practical when removing them would just give new players the impression that DB is a hopelessly unbalanced game. Telling players to just leave if they don’t like it doesn’t fix anything, it makes it worse, because I really don’t see how an unnecessary shuffle in a public match “ruins” the match more than having the entire enemy team leave, as it frequently happens when a needed shuffle is unable to pass.
Point being, there’s no perfect solution. Removing shuffles would create more problems than it would solve, and there’s not much that can be done to rework it either.
I don’t like shuffle spam either, but at the end of the day it is just a PUB, the idea is to have fun. A spawncamp isn’t fun for either side, but being shuffled is nothing more than a brief inconvenience, and it certainly doesn’t mean the rest of the match is “ruined”
In my opinion the problem isn’t the vote mechanic. It works perfectly fine in Wolf:ET, a previous title by SD. Democratic choices are (mostly) always a good thing.
My personal opinion is, that the absence of a community feeling in Dirty Bomb is the real problem. Players don’t play with the same people, they normally play. Dirty Bomb uses a lot of similar mechanics like Wolf:ET, for example vote system and quick-chat options. The difference is that in Wolf:ET players play on their favourite community servers. That means that they play with familiar, friendly faces. It doesn’t bring the feeling of simply playing for XP, missions or whatever, you play for a fun time with friends.
Those community servers are managed by admins, just like the ones that have been introduced in Dirty Bomb in the recent days. On those servers, people voluntarily switched teams if they noticed the other team was short on people. Yes, I said voluntarily. Simply because of the feeling that you play with friends and not for XP. If players didn’t switch (mostly in the early days before learning), the admins simply used the command !put [player] [team] to put a selected regular player from the stronger team to the other team. That ensures fair matches, because admins know their regular players. If the moved player complains, !warn and if they continue !kick. Easy as that. It keeps servers free of toxicity and brings a more enjoyable experience to everyone.
So, I have one suggestion: Play on community servers.
You will notice a difference. Maybe not during the first matches, but once you get to know the regulars on that server and start chatting, you will notice that the experience becomes a lot more enjoyable. Don’t play on generic public servers with strangers. It’s tedious. They don’t know you and they don’t care about you.
Don’t blame democratic mechanics. Blame the society and switch the society.
You still have to prove that it’s better after the vote-shuffle than before. But in most case it isn’t and some people will leave anyway. As I said, why the 2nd shuffle would be better than the auto-shuffle? Votes are just pure annoyance who solve nothing at all.
If you are stomp, vote-shuffle isn’t the solution, you have to find another one. Try harder, talk with team mates, or change server… But don’t ruin Stopwatch spirit who consist to do a full round in attack and then a full round in defence.
And seriously, democracy has nothing to do with this lol.
You blame the “balance” while you should blame yourself and improve yourself. And just wait the end of the match for the next auto-shuffle.
Of course the match is ruined, or you really don’t understand this game which consist to do a full round in one side and then a full round in the other side. In this case, maybe play another game?
Shuffles are usually required when a team drastically changes over the course of a match. The auto-shuffle at the beginning of a match usually produces fair teams, but AFK players, leavers, team switchers, etc can make a balanced match unbalanced, which is why shuffles are a thing. Auto-shuffle isn’t even the right word really, it’s just creating the initial teams.
Shuffles aren’t intended as an “I suck, hope I get onto the winning team” button, they’re intended as “wow, 3 players left the other team. They’re getting steamrolled now, I should balance things out”. It’s not a matter of telling someone to just “git gud” because there’s nothing you can do about having half your team leaving or being afk. And telling a player to leave if they don’t like being in that position only makes the match worse for both teams.
And yeah, when a team is down several players and a shuffle gets called, the game actually does become far more enjoyable.
You’re missing the point and getting hung up on minor details that I explain later in my post anyways.
Do you play DB exclusively for the structure of a stopwatch match, to watch the timer tick down or that objective progress bar? I somehow doubt that, otherwise you’d have gotten bored a long time ago. No, people play DB because they enjoy the actual gameplay. The gunfights, the movement, the positioning, etc. Stopwatch is just the medium. When you get moved onto another team, you’re still playing the same game, with the same gameplay mechanics you play for in the first place. It doesn’t matter which team you’re fighting for, you can still enjoy yourself. You just have to let yourself have fun.
What it boils down to is, as I’ve already mentioned, shuffles aren’t perfect, but removing them is even worse. If you want proof, just find an unbalanced stopwatch match and tell me how fun it is to spawncamp for 12 minutes while the entire enemy team leaves
Yes I do. As lots of people. That’s why we are annoyed by vote shuffle spams.
I agree, but that’s how 95% of players use it, that’s why it must be removed.
No, you are playing TDM and then it isn’t the same game at all.
Mate, I have 1406 hours in parties. And this proven to me that 95% of time, vote-shuffle and restart are used by toxic players and must be removed in PUBs.
Never noticed that XP gets reset on a restart, wonder if it’s a good idea to not reset it. But then again you can only do a restart within the first few minutes, so it’s not the end of the world.
Balance is usually one of the biggest complaints, so can’t see them being removed until something else comes along, auto-balance, switch incentives, something else… especially now that matchmaking being disabled. Perhaps look to community servers if it’s that much of a turnoff.
Shuffles should be disabled for the last few minutes, so this shouldn’t be a thing. Although TBH they should probably disable once the last objective has been reached as well.
Yes, after you planted or completed the first objective. Another guy understanding this game…
Except shuffle doesn’t help the balance at all. I just half-finished a match, it was way more balanced before the abusive shuffle. Then I left at the end of 1st round. Just happy we kicked the toxic guy asking for abusive shuffle.
Lets not forget that one dude who left the match after calling shuffle…What a douchebag…
Or that one dude who only wants good players in the team so he called shuffle.
And how can we forget the people who vote shuffle because he is getting too salty while he sits on the bottom of the board and he start to say “wow soo unbalanced, thx SD”
Shuffle only brings the worst of the people, just like levels.
My most recent experience happened yesterday on Chapel where a one-sided stompfest got shuffled into an intense back and forth, so yes, a shuffle can improve a match.
Sure, sometimes it doesn’t work wonders and you just have to sit it out. However, what never improves a match is not shuffling at all.
