About Vassili's current state. I am dare to speak.

(Tanker_Ray) #1

Please note that this thread is never a whining thread, and I wrote this because not only I had such a hard time facing him at Chapel/Bridge 3rd phase straight passage nowadays, but I’m also good enough to use Vassili well.

I know what Vassili’s image was for a long time - yes, trash or noob sniper merc, because those noob-sillies that makes Vassili laughable was literally useless to the team, being a free score.

But I’m dare to speak this today, after his 110HP buff(BIGGEST ONE.) + Focus augment applying to MP400 hipfire + MOA’s scope sway gone + sensor’s CD shorter than 20 sec of duration time.

Vassili really is close to OP with good hands who know how to use MP400, and land constant shots with MOA.

Really. I’m serious. He is currently best Recon sniper to use for anyone(noob or pro or medium users) right now, since heartbeat sensor does not require much skill like Red Eye’s Smoke and Aimee’s SNITCH does.

He is so stable after the HP buff, that Red Eye with pistol can’t even reach Vassili with MP400’s CQC quality. Let’s not even talk about Aimee.

All you have to do is position yourself well, and shoot enemy’s head/shoot two times for body shot kill since MOA had insane RoF, shoot closing enemy’s body and use MP400 for stable win.

Snipers are meant to strong at long range, weak at close range but he is capable of ANY range right now.

All you need is git gud at shooting sniper rifle. MOA doesn’t even have that much recoil + 100% accuracy while moving. If shotgun Proxy/Fletcher was able to cover far range, I won’t even talk.

I won’t say MOA should have 70 dmg along with Fragger’s max HP, or MP400 need further nerf right now,

but his HP has to roll back to 100 first.

To those of you who think 10HP difference isn’t significant, let’s see how 110HP can be so influential.

Note that 110HP is same as Bushwhacker, Fletcher, Phantom, and Sawbonez who always fight in close-mid range, let’s see how much difference does 100HP and 110HP has.

Following is how 100 HP can be killed instantly/quickly.

  • Chopper kanata’s stab

  • Fletcher’s sticky(If stuck.)

  • Burst rifles(BR and Stark both)'s triple headshot OR double bursts

  • Double Dreiss headshot

  • PDP-70’s headshot/double bodyshot.

This HP difference is top worst among any other HP difference like 110 and 120.

So now, literally Vas can sustain that much. AS A SNIPER.

Also, reason why Unshakable isn’t vital anymore is all because of that Max HP. Sustaining Fletcher’s stick without the option.

Many of you won’t going to agree me with this, but in serious comp game or not even well played, CORRECTLY played Vassili is just fear itself. Even I can feel how good he is with the MOA/MP400.

Noob Vassilis will still miss all of their MOA shots, doesn’t even use MP400, die meaningless, but pros are completely different.

MO11 Vas with Focus man. Shooting someone’s head WHILE getting headshots by the others, winning any duals with MOA body shot + MP400 + 110 tanky HP.

He can deal with any range right now. Even old man with 120HP has to depend on small handgun.

MOA is able to insta kill any mercs under Thunder with superior accuracy/RoF than Felix.

If SD isn’t going to touch his huge amount of HP as insta killing sniper, they really gotta increase the aimpunch to prevent him shooting someone’s head while being shotted on his head.

(SaulWolfden) #2

I fully agree that his HP should go back to 100, he still moves at that speed.

Edit: Redeye literally needs his 120 HP since he has no automatic weaponry or ability to further increase his damage unlike the other three Recons. Phantom is meant to be the CQC Recon so 110 hp suits him.

Oh and Aimee’s 90 hp is offset by being able to escape and her snitch being able to increase the damage she deals.

(Tanker_Ray) #3

[quote=“SaulWolfden;211216”]I fully agree that his HP should go back to 100, he still moves at that speed.

Edit: Redeye literally needs his 120 HP since he has no automatic weaponry or ability to further increase his damage unlike the other three Recons. Phantom is meant to be the CQC Recon so 110 hp suits him.

Oh and Aimee’s 90 hp is offset by being able to escape and her snitch being able to increase the damage she deals.[/quote]

Yes, you have your point there.

Red Eye’s biggest difference between Vas is he can’t access ANY bolt-action sniper rifles.

Only insta killing weapon he has is PDP, and that only applies to mercs under 100HP.(Grandeur kills Aura and Sparks - 80HP with single head, but let’s skip this.)

Semi-auto weapon means he has to show himself to shoot someone multiple times, when he is out of smoke.

120HP doesn’t mean he can sustain two bodyshots of MOA/Felix, so arguing with Red Eye’s HP comparing to Vas is just absurd.

Well played Vas is so hard to kill from either far/close distance, unless Vas miss his first MOA shot at close range, or me taking burst rifles(Especially STARK.) because I’m out of options, or counter snipe with grandpa/SAME vassili.

(GatoCommodore) #4

whoa whoa @THUNDA …

SD likes to “Enhance” the new players experience in DB…

no doubt about that and lets not doubt about that. (its stupidly obvious)

this issue lingers but probably nobody in SD want change it since new players will leave if their favourite mercs in CSGO nerfed.

(Herr_Hanz) #5

i disagree, because i love vassili, and i love playing his as an agressive ‘in your face watchu gun do bout it’ quickscoping sniper, but also because vassili is one of the most player skill based mercs in the game. every point you mention is only effective if a skilled person is using vassili to his maximum potential. removing his HP buff will only make people camp more, and not try to venture out of the back of spawn safety zone.

you have the problem: too many snipers camp. solution: give him 10HP more so he can be moderatly effective in closer ranges luring more vassili’s out of their spawn.

unfortunetly i do agree that skillfull people use him in unintended ways to reach his maximum killing potential (like quickscoping in CoD, and in DB’s case, hitting a sniper bodyshot before going in with MP or pistol), but that is what makes the difference between how a skilled player uses vassili and how a noob uses him.

(IAmYourDad) #6

A sniper is going to be always annoying, good or bad. But Moa vassili with quick eye is pretty good right now, even with strictly bodyshotting wise. SD can’t really nerf sidearms anymore because Sparks has poor weapon choice as it is. So a HP nerf will be most welcome. I’m sick of getting close to a sniper and coming out with like 20hp, if any. A long range specialist should not be this strong in close quarters.

(JJMAJR) #7

Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.

(SaulWolfden) #8

[quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

He still moves like he has 100 hp.

(Herr_Hanz) #9

[quote=“SaulWolfden;211449”][quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

He still moves like he has 100 hp.[/quote]

slow vassili movement speed to match his HP.

/thread

(GatoCommodore) #10

[quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

[quote=“SaulWolfden;211449”][quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

He still moves like he has 100 hp.[/quote]

actually, since MOA is the faster firing bolt action, why arent SD making the scope sway bigger?

i mean they did that with PDP

(JJMAJR) #11

[quote=“SaulWolfden;211449”][quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

He still moves like he has 100 hp.[/quote]

Nader moves like she has 100 HP and I don’t see a problem with that.

(frostyvampire) #12

You forgot to add that 100hp can also be 1 shot killed by a FEL-IX bodyshot if you get debuffed with SNITCH since SNITCH does 1 damage and FEL-IX does 99 damage with the debuff bonus.

(JJMAJR) #13

That’s assuming SD doesn’t floor all of their non-integer numbers. If they do, that means the debuff+FEL-IX just leaves 1 HP on Phoenix.

Also, if we want to talk about the SNITCH, I honestly think that Aimee shouldn’t be relying on that in order to deal damage. Because it doesn’t work. As soon as someone opens their eyes or places a med station, frag, or whatnot, it’s dead. POS design like that shouldn’t even be mentioned.

(GatoCommodore) #14

That’s assuming SD doesn’t floor all of their non-integer numbers. If they do, that means the debuff+FEL-IX just leaves 1 HP on Phoenix.

Also, if we want to talk about the SNITCH, I honestly think that Aimee shouldn’t be relying on that in order to deal damage. Because it doesn’t work. As soon as someone opens their eyes or places a med station, frag, or whatnot, it’s dead. POS design like that shouldn’t even be mentioned.[/quote]

well its pretty good suppression to me.

i threw it to a bunch of guys, when they saw they are debilitated they just ran away fearing for their lives.

i admit that snitch is POS design.
why was the snitch drops really fast again?

(Tanker_Ray) #15

[quote=“sweetColumn;211473”][quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

[quote=“SaulWolfden;211449”][quote=“JJMAJR;211417”]Decreasing Vassili’s HP to 100 would make a FEL-IX buff really difficult to execute. Increased mobility with the thing won’t even help it any more because that Vassili just won’t survive well enough to make it work.

Increasing the MOA’s aimpunch/sway and scope-in speed might be a better way to go about changing Vas.

Also, any argument like “this is for the noobs” or “this is because Vas is skill-based” are null.[/quote]

He still moves like he has 100 hp.[/quote]

actually, since MOA is the faster firing bolt action, why arent SD making the scope sway bigger?

i mean they did that with PDP[/quote]

Because MOA should always be the most accurate Bolt-action sniper rifle ever, just for Vassili since it’s his OWN weapon.

@JJMAJR Nader’s stat history was 100HP/420 - > 110HP/420 - > 120HP/410 Final.

She never moves like when she had 100HP.

Also unlike Vas, she deserves more HP as an proper Assault.

@Herr_Hanz I know how you feel about this thread, as much as you love Vas, just like I can’t live without Thunder.

But on the other hand, as I’ve always agreed with conc CD nerf by myself, I think we should care more about overall balance more, rather than personal favorite individual.

Not only Vassili, but Recon snipers are most primary weapon - dependent, and it can’t be the only logic for Vas to avoid the nerf since Red Eye and Aimee also requires high skill experience, which means Vassili can’t be ‘most’ skill required like you said.

Also, I never said sniper’s ‘camping’ is annoying. It is so clear that snipers are ‘meant’ to stay in certain area, and give pressure to enemy passage from far range sniping. This is what ‘snipers’ do, right?

What I’ve mentioned was him being extremely stable when fighting in close range, capable of covering all ranges by just shooting MOA well.

Fletcher is extremely skill-based merc, and even so, guess what will happen if shotguns could cover far range. Just like snipers able to cover CQC.

All you need to do for playing Vas well is MOA aiming skill right now. He is extremely tanky as ‘Bolt-action insta killing Sniper’, and purpose of Vas using MP was to cover his 100HP, not 110.

Lastly, ‘every point you mention is only effective if a skilled person is using vassili to his maximum potential.’

This part. Isn’t DB already ‘hardcore player skill-based game’? All guns, mercs were already discussed by the criteria of ‘maximum potential’ for so long.

We are not here to discuss about someone’s skill level, but to see how effective it is with either good/bad hands, right?

OP merc/guns will show least potential with noob’s hand, but will perform BETTER than noobs with worse merc/guns. This is just plain obvious. In pro’s hand? the difference gap will be as large as using M4/burst rifles.

Just because some mercs/weapons are highly player’s aiming skill dependent doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a nerf, when their maximum potential is way too high compared to the others.

This is exactly why SD decided to nerf Red Eye and his PDP, eventhough he required much more skill than Vassili.

Me, my self as 1200XP/min P55 PDP Red Eye main, I definitely agreed with that nerf before.

@IAmYourDad Well said. A long range specialist should not be this strong in close quarters. Especially this part.

You are the only Asia server guy in this thread/forum, so how about you prove them how good I am with Vas. (Lennyface)

jk.

no need to go far, you know how annoying well played MOA Vas is, especially in close-mid range.

(frostyvampire) #16

That’s assuming SD doesn’t floor all of their non-integer numbers. If they do, that means the debuff+FEL-IX just leaves 1 HP on Phoenix.

Also, if we want to talk about the SNITCH, I honestly think that Aimee shouldn’t be relying on that in order to deal damage. Because it doesn’t work. As soon as someone opens their eyes or places a med station, frag, or whatnot, it’s dead. POS design like that shouldn’t even be mentioned.[/quote]

@JJMAJR
It only leaves Phoenix with 1hp if he managed to heal that 1hp somehow. 79*1.25 = 88.75. SD only messes the numbers up if they end with .5

But it’s so fun to bodyshot Aura and then throw a SNITCH right next to her feet and see the eye in the kill icon
And let’s not forget the SNITCH traps placed especially for that Proxy to push so you can bodyshot her

Besides, if you know how to play Aimee, you will place the SNITCH in places where enemies will push through and have to fight multiple enemies so they don’t have time to find the SNITCH. A few examples are: Bridge generator room, Bridge last point (at the gate), Underground first bombsite and Chapel last point tunnel thing on the left side

(GatoCommodore) #17

lemme get this straight,

Vas was intended to use the Machine-Pistole because he has 100 hp and he cant detect enemies trhu walls

and now his HP is 110, Spotter balls can spot thru walls and he still gets the machine-pistole

I thought Fletcher is immoral…

(BananaSlug) #18

red eye and vassili are the game changers on 5v5 right now, which isnt good

(Tanker_Ray) #19

@FrostyVampire

you can never damage Phoenix like that, since heal will also remove the dmg boost.

Easiest way of getting Snitch kill is what you’ve mentioned : normal body shot to Aura/Sparks with Felix, then 1hp left females zapped.

@sweetColumn Well at least fletcher can’t cover all distances. Since MOA’s accuracy is 100% if zoomed and not jumped, I honestly find Vas really easy.

All you need is to aim track to shoot the body, and tank with your HP + pull out MP400, done.

@BananaSlug Well at least grandpa was nerfed. Vas is overall worse than PDP grandpa at pubs.

Especially Chapel Defender.

(Not me playing, but other KR DBer who mains Vas.)

(GatoCommodore) #20

[quote=“THUNDA;211653”]@FrostyVampire

you can never damage Phoenix like that, since heal will also remove the dmg boost.

Easiest way of getting Snitch kill is what you’ve mentioned : normal body shot to Aura/Sparks with Felix, then 1hp left females zapped.

@sweetColumn Well at least fletcher can’t cover all distances. Since MOA’s accuracy is 100% if zoomed and not jumped, I honestly find Vas really easy.

All you need is to aim track to shoot the body, and tank with your HP + pull out MP400, done.

@BananaSlug Well at least grandpa was nerfed. Vas is overall worse than PDP grandpa at pubs.

Especially Chapel Defender.

(Not me playing, but other KR DBer who mains Vas.)[/quote]

that FOV made me nauseous.

soo…
season 3 cards need to remove all Machine-Pistole from vasilli if he didnt get nerfed…

because if nerfing Machine-Pistole any further would hurt every other mercs out there.

Is SD listening to us or the Money?