About the asymmetrical teams

(signofzeta) #1

Is it true that what GDF has the strogg must have but they function differently? I mean the player itself, not the terrain or the vehicles

both GDF and Strogg have 7 deployables
if GDF has airstrikes, then strogg should have orbital strikes right?
Both covert ops/infiltrator have spycams

This thread really dates back about the strogg opressor. I just want to know that if GDF has throwing call in fire support thing, then does that make the strogg must have one too?

I’m saying that will GDF have something, and the strogg can have another thing to relate to that GDF thing?

Airstrike/orbital strike
Defib/technician needle thing
Health and Ammo from respective classes/stroyent

(kamikazee) #2

We do hear about assymetrical gameplay, but then there are a lot of similarities to counter each other’s advantages.

The most assymetrical thing for me at this moment is stroyent: strogg use it as “fuel” and ammo. That’s a whole difference compared to run of the mill humans who can still survive on vegetables and meat, but need to grab a box of ammo once in a while.

(Flesh) #3

I dont really understand what is this topic about. If you want to know what kind of equipment Strogg and GDF use look at the “Armies” section of enemyterritroy.com.

And since were talking about the asymetry Id just like to mention a few things. Imo this asymetri thing doesnt stretch as far as i hoped it would. Shure the teams have diffrent weapons (thats the least we could ask), but what about their abilites? GDF and Strogg engineere have practicly the same purpose, the same deployables and abilities (except for that Strogg flying drone but that doesnt change anything much). Same goes for Strogg and GDF Cov ops - same function, similar weapons and practicly same abitlites (both have some kind of hacking devices except that one has a static camera and the other has a flying camera). Soldiers on both sides are identical (both have rocket, heavy mg and the ability to destroy objectives). Both GDF and Strogg Field ops have the same type of airstrike attack, artilery attack, fire support that is effective against vehicles and a weapon designed to destroy objectives.
Imo best asymetri is made in the Medic class as GDF and Strogg Medics are very diffrent - all classes should be made diffrent similar to the relation between GDF and Strogg Medics. What Im trying to say is that opposing team classes should have a lot less common ground, and a lot diffrent functions.

(Dazzamac) #4

There are only so many things a soldier can do in a war. Of course theres gonna be similarities because every army from whatever planet still needs heavy weapons specialists, Engineers, Medics, Logistics and intelligence. The only reason the strogg medic is different is because of the way strogg function. Whilst a logistic engineer knows nothing about medicice, a medic doesn’t distribute ammo whereas the strogg use the same components for both ammunition and healing obviously the medic can do both.

(Flesh) #5

So what you are saying Dazzamac is that two completly diffrent races (Humans and Strogg) that have completely diffrent technologies, diffrent weapons and entirely diffrent warfeare strategies should have practicly the same military classes? Lemme give you a tip: with the change of technology and/or culture come completely diffrent ways and techniques of wageing war.

(kamikazee) #6

Let’s say they inherit the classes during the Stroggification process, based on the race they’re converting. Culture conflict solved.
Assymetric can’t go all the way, or would you like to see one invulnerable and one vulnerable team? :lol:

My point: it is fine as it is. RtCW supposedly had some asymetric aspects too, but their classes were identical. Let the dev’s sort out how they want their game, we only need to enjoy it, not decide for them.

(Dazzamac) #7

Ok heres an example, for many centuries, eastern asia was completely cut off from europe. In essence, it was entirley alien to them,yet both sides developed gunpowder independantly (asians first though). Both sides used swords in their battles, totally differnt in design, but swords nonetheless. Both sides used archers in battle (Europeans less so until the english showcased the use of mass archery).

There you have it, two cultures with no contact, developing independently from each other using very similar methods of warfare. One problem has less solutions than you’d think

(Bongoboy) #8

Dude, it’s a game.

(ParanoiD) #9

Huh, what omfg! I really tought you were releasing your mutant Strogg from the basement…

(I3LiP) #10

OKay okay, We know its a game. But lets go on a little imaginative adventure.

In order to create properly asymetrical teams you would need to have a completely different way of fighting and tactics.

There was this one discussion on the Prey forum about the alien weaponry. It was different in many ways, but still essentially you had:

Small Arms (Pistol/SMG)
Grenade
Assault Rifle
Shotgun
Rocket Launcher
etc etc

And while the weapons were interesting and essentially unique they were still based on human warfare methods and tactics.

This is essentially what SD is doing. And, Kudo’s to them, its going to be awesome, fighting as we know and love it with an alien twist.

If however you want to have asymetrical gameplay you have to envisage a completely different way of fighting. Obviously this would be a nightmare for any multiplayer game such as this one.

(SniperSteve) #11

No it’s not. Shush.

(ayatollah) #12

Man have you played Quake? Have you seen the weapons used in that? Are they pretty similar to human weapons? Did Splash Damage set the precedent for Strogg weapons?

Fact is id made the original Strogg weapons and SD are keeping within the same train of thought.

(Sauron|EFG) #13

That’s for the first patch if the game turns out to be unbalanced, or possibly for the sequel.

(Flesh) #14

I agree that vehicles are pretty asymetric - Strogg have slow but heavely armored and powerful vehicles, GDF has less powerful but fast vehicles that can carry more passangers. Also I think that weapons will be pretty diffrent too since SD did say they will make completely diffrent weapons for the Strogg race. So note that I am not complaining about weapons or vehicles.

What I wanted to say is that classes and class functions should be more asymetric/ diffrent. Kind of in a same way that weapons and vehicles will be diffrent. For example soldier classes have exactly the same function and equimpment on both teams, and cov ops, engineeres and field ops classes have pretty similar functions too. Plus both teams have practicly the same deployables system.

(The 4th Horseman) #15

If anyone played Rise of Legends I think people will know what this guy is talking about. It’s not quite correct to compare a RTS game to an FPS game but the logic still holds true.

3 different civilizations using 3 unique technologies competing for resources/domination.

Each one is unique up to a point. There can’t help to be but some similarity in how things are done.

With the above in mind, I’m not a huge fan of asymmetric teams. Give me the same guns(Damage Table) with different skins/effects. I think that was one of the great things about RTCW/W:ET for me. There was never an overpowering weapon that the other team had that you didn’t. If someone grabbed a flame thrower you could to. If someone was mortaring you, you mortared back.

If SD truly found a balancing between asymmetrical teams then we are in for the game of our lives. The difficulty of doing something like this is incredible. Before you complain about it, why not wait till the game is out? That way you have a basis for an argument.

For everything we do know about the game there are 100 things we don’t yet. Sometimes, a little perspective is in order.

(Hakuryu) #16

For however much I get flamed for mentioning Battlefield…

BF had teams with different equipment, like the M16 versus the AK47. I prefered the AK47 with it’s auto fire, but others liked the M16’s accuracy (go ahead and laugh. Yes I did say ‘accuracy’ when referring to a Battlefield game).

Point is, that BF actually did asymetrical team weapons well. Neither was overpowered, but different. If Dice can pull that off, then I have faith that SD will come up with something even better.

(signofzeta) #17

what I see so far is that the weapons and gear of all classes on both sides except medics, technician, and fieldops ammo packs are used in the same manner, but function differently. I think that is asymmetrical enough. I don’t want to always to play on one team because I like throwing markers for fire support etc.

All the GDF weapons have a strogg counterpart
N80 assault rifle = Lacerator (whether with scope or grenade launcher attachment)
Shotgun = Nailgun
GPMG = Hyperblaster
Rocket Launcher = Bosonic orb
Machine Pistol = Lightning pistol (does it exist? Only for fire support class? Or is it the secondary weapon?
Sniper = Railgun
Silenced machinegun thing Cvops has but strogg has no counterpart? What is their counterpart for that thing? Wait, nevermind since all strogg weapons have a trail so nothing is ever “silenced” in their weapons.

(signofzeta) #18

Strogg lacerator and the n80 assault rifle are already different in function as they are. I’m saying that you can relate those two weapons by which classes uses them. Same with deployables and airstrike/orbital strike markers/beacons.

So in BF, if there are 2 weapons different, and unrelated because one class uses AK while other classes uses M16 in the other team?

(Dr_Tenma) #19

I think the asymmetry is looking pretty good, and we should hope it turns out right. I’m surprised you guys haven’t mentioned a few things yet though:

  • Strogg weapons don’t reload, from what I’ve seen the Lacerator has a single load of 150 shots and Hyperblaster has a single load of 800. Hell, the Strogg Blaster (that weak yellow pea-shooter) doesn’t even have an ammo display so I assume it’s infinite. They supposedly overheat, but there doesn’t seem to be a heat indicator on the HUD.

  • Strogg Technician gives out both health and ammo as Stroyent, which must be harvested. GDF get freebie refills but from 2 classes of Medic and Field Ops. Technician seems like a more “predatory” role than medic, since you need to get kills to do your thing.

  • Strogg Constructor has a repair bot that works without you having to sit there with your pliers like a GDF. I’m guessing you can destroy it though. I think at QuakeCon they said Engineers can repair vehicles while riding inside it. Unknown if Constructors do this too, but I’m guessing they can’t repair without their bot deployed.

  • Infiltrators have that teleport marker, flyer drone and can disguise. Covert ops have smoke grenades and 3rd eye camera.

  • Plenty of vehicle differences mentioned already.

(SCDS_reyalP) #20

I would say BF took the easy way… make the differences small enough that they aren’t a big deal.

The hard way is to do it like AVP :wink:

From the available info, it looks like et:qw is going to be somewhere in between.