About that Tribes Mod...

(extraordinary) #1

Is anyone actually putting a team together for it, or is it all talk that will fail to ever exist beyond a pipe dream… like all other “Tribes mods?”

(Nail) #2

Dont you think that waiting for the game to be released before modding it would be a good idea ?

(Strogg) #3

I like to think ahead :evil:

(extraordinary) #4

it’s being based on the doom 3 engine, right? Models, skins and textures could be ready before the game goes gold. Prototype maps, prefabs, entities, ect could all be set up, or at least partially finished before the game ships.

If people are serious about making the Tribes mod, there wouldn’t be hesitation. :X

(MessyDog) #5

Can ET:QW as an engine handle Tribes? I certainly hope so. But all is not lost even if can’t. Let me explain…

The reason Tribes is difficult to replicate on most FPS engines is that the majority cater only for room and corridor style play; even those that pretend to be outdoors actually take place in large enclosed areas with the sky making up 5 inside faces of the box. Hardly suitable for massive outdoor environments. Take Tribes: Vengeance as an example, nice attempt, wrong game engine. The Unreal (SUCK!) engine, which Tribes: Vengeance used, might be great for pretty stuff but when it comes to very big environments it just can’t cut it. That’s right, you heard me, the Unreal engine can’t cut it and I’ll bare-knuckle fight anyone who says otherwise.

Now look at ET:QW. We know it’s based on the Doom3 engine, so hardly very promising for a massive outdoor game like Tribes. But wait! MegaTextures offer much larger maps than were previously available. Even so MegaTextures in their current (ET:QW) incarnation may not be suitably big enough for a true Tribes map. A mile across might seem big, until you start skiing at flag capping speeds. Then you have a map you can cross in mere seconds.

Great! So maybe even ET:QW won’t be a suitable option for ressurecting Tribes? Well maybe, maybe not. The size of MegaTextures and the improvements to a current or future engine that handles them should get better. With that, very very large outdoor maps become a reality.

It seems odd to me that not all FPS engines strive to have a large a possible map area. After all, can you name any major battle of the 20th century that took place in a shoe box?!?!?

(carnage) #6

Great! So maybe even ET:QW won’t be a suitable option for ressurecting Tribes? Well maybe, maybe not. The size of MegaTextures and the improvements to a current or future engine that handles them should get better. With that, very very large outdoor maps become a reality.

i have to point out here that your basing the size limits of an ETQW map on constraining and limitations of the mega texture is perhaps not the best way to look at this as the mega texture is mainly responsible for the visual aspect of the surface

the proposed mega texture covers one square mile at it high resolution in ETQW. But if this texture was to was to be stretched say 8 times lower the resolution per unit you could cover a 64 square mile area. and possibly get the benefits of being able to detects things like traction, particle effects etc from the texture

the other advantage of using ETQW for this is the level of detail setup for graphical display witch would be very valuable to a game trying to render such massive environments and maintain high enough fps to play a shooter

further advantages of using ETQW engine is that the net code is optimized for this kind of massive battlefield enviroment and if you need to is easily capable to supporting vehicles over massive environments. this is where i think most other portal oriented engines would fall down

i must confess though that i have never actually played tribes (before my time) although all this hype about it makes me wanna try it

(Hakuryu) #7

The Unreal engine worked fine for Tribes Vengeance. The only thing different with that game is there really is no oob (out of bounds) to use as a cap approach. While some maps were very small, there were a few that were quite large.

That approach actually added to the gameplay imo. The enclosed stadium map was fun as hell and you would never see that in a tiling terrain Tribes.

What killed TV for me was a combination of the crappy vehicles, jetpack + skiing that didn’t feel quite right, and World of Warcraft came out about the same time.

What killed TV for others was my skill (and other skilled Tribes players). A combination of the grappling hook, shield, and my jetpack skills was just unstoppable. You get upset and don’t want to play a game where a guy just flies around and owns you. Believe me, it was super easy with the grapple and jetpack to stay airborne near indefinately (and fun, for me anyway :slight_smile: ).

Back on topic… have you checked Tribal War? I think the guy that started the Tribes mod topic is a regular poster there, and you might find more info in their forums, but be warned it’s a no holds barred site - user run fan site with no language/etc rules.

(MessyDog) #8

Perhaps not. I do see MegaTextures as being an indicator that proper sized battle maps may be possible.

Assuming this is possible, reducing the visual quality of the terrain for a massive gain in play area could be a worthwhile trade off. In Enemy AirSpace plans for the Carriers are coming up at somewhere in the region of 300 metres long. A bigger terrain would certainly benefit us and reducing its apparent visual quality would be no loss; since to live you must fly some distance above it.

It’s worth a try. Tribes 1 and 2 have a steep online learning curve. Tribes: Vengeance, for all it’s faults, is the most accessable for new players.

I’m not saying T:V got it 100% wrong, I enjoyed it for a while. The limitations of the wrong game engine and, as you mention, certain game elements make it flawed. The player models, in particular all the BEagle Armours, were great.

(extraordinary) #9

Actually, there is an engine that is spectacular for a Tribes-style game, and that would be the Torque engine; which was originally developed by Dynamix back for Tribes 1, under a different engine name and later was renamed Torque for Tribes 2 after a severe overhaul. Garage Games bought it from Sierra after the whole Dynamix, Sierra fiasco that resulted in Dynamix being “let go.” Garage Games continues to develop it and it’s a beautiful engine with top of the line net code for massive maps, tons of players and fast-paced movement, as well as the best terrain system for huge maps. Not to mention, the built in scripting engine which makes modding and scripting the easiest thing ever.

Yes, that does sound like a plug for Torque… if only ETQW was still in a stage that they could make such a dramatic change up.

Personally, I don’t think the Doom 3 engine will handle a Tribes-like game very well, but with nothing else to look forward to now that it’s been confirmed that Legions is a no-go, I’d rather waste my time trying than not at all; and CS:S is boring and easy.

(criminal) #10

This reminds me of the debates over wether or nor the doom engine would ever be able to handle outdoor environments. Just because it’s hard doesn’t make it impossible. If you assemble an talented and dedicated team then all technicalities aside i’m sure you could grind something out.

(extraordinary) #11

No, it’s not impossible on any engine designed for a first person shooter. The problem lies in the physics and in the maps. Some engines cannot make big enough maps and some can. A Tribes like game needs big maps; so the engines that cannot support it are automatically scrapped, while the engines that can require a ton more work than what it’s worth and usually still won’t play right. For example, making terrain the right shape to optimize skiing is required and that can be difficult without a good terrain system in the map editor (HL2, for example).

Yeah, teams could rewrite everything from scratch but at that point, they might as well just make their own game. If they’re going to make their own game, they might as well use an engine designed for the game and at that point… they don’t have to code all of this extra stuff because the engine has it (Torque).

As for checking on Tribalwar… it’s never a good idea to post anything about tribes-a-likes because it’ll get flamed all to hell and everyone will want to put in their two cents on how they think it should be. It’s very depressing, really. I was in one group making a Tribes port to HL2 and they talked about it on Tribalwar and soon after I joined, and soon after I finished the jetpacks, boom, group disband because of all the flaming and unjustified criticism. :frowning:

(SCDS_reyalP) #12

This is an inherent problem in trying to make a mod that “revives” an old game/mod. Lots of people love tribes, but at the first opportunity they will flame each other endlessly over tribes 1 vs tribes 2 (with a few piping in for T:V) or classic vs. shifter vs. renegades etc.

(Hakuryu) #13

I think it’s about time for a Tribes 1 mod. Take it back to basics, the game everyone loved ‘base’. No LT restrictions, or vehicles from other versions that took the gameplay away from the lovable and versatile jetpack.

The only thing I would change from the original version is re-think heavys with mortars. I dont think Dynamix envisioned super fast skiing heavy’s that could decimate a base quite easily. I competed as a heavy offense raper, and a light d midfield anti-heavy…it’s much easier to spam mortars than stop a skiing heavy consistently.

Making the base assets less vulnerable, so a heavy skiiing by cant lob mortars onto your inventory station would be a start. Make them enter the base if they want to rape.

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(Nail) #14

why not…play Tribes ??

it too is free now

(Darkfrost) #15

Umm… What exactly… IS tribes? :lol:

(extraordinary) #16

A lot of people feel Tribes is done and over; that they should let sleeping dogs lie. A lot of people feel that it’s time Tribes got an upgrade; that the graphics need a boost. I agree on both fronts. The main issue is, getting a team together with the skill, time and patience to build a game on the Torque engine from scratch is damn near impossible unless you own your own company with the employees who have such skills, or you have funding to pay people to do it. We have neither. Thus, the most viable option is to let another company do all the work and then build on top of it.