That prevents me from respawning to spec a player when I choose to.
That forces me to configure my game while standing still in game.
That forces me to sit there like a retard when incapacitated in game, for the length of the reinforcement time, which wont allow interrogation anyway.
You need to understand from a team perspective, that using your time proactively out of the game - helps you win games. You dont just die or /kill and twiddle your thumbs. Its a period of time you get to communicate with your team and plan ahead. And in order for that to happen, being out of game needs to be a choice.
If you care for your XP, stick to campaigns, or play offline.
I think you’ve completely missed the point and just dwelled on your own reasons for wanting it there without looking at the bigger picture.
That prevents me from respawning to spec a player when I choose to.
Prevents you from respawning to spec a player? Sorry that doesn’t seem to make sense, can you clarify?
That forces me to configure my game while standing still in game. That forces me to sit there like a retard when incapacitated in game, for the length of the reinforcement time, which wont allow interrogation anyway.
Why do you have to be physically dead to configure your game? Dead or incapped waiting to spawn, you can still access limbo and change settings… no standystillyretardyness necessary. And if you mean /kill then configure… what does it matter if you stand still in game? You wanted to die any way, be it via /kill or an enemy, you’ll get the desired effect (that’s if you can change class in the limbo menu and aren’t restricted to command posts in the 1st place).
Sitting twiddling my thumbs, here i’ve been doing wrong all these years! Yeah i’ve just been killed, obviously where I am is an area of interest and should be fed back rather than watching someone who could be doing nothing. It’ll be quite curious to see exactly what happens when you’re dead, I saw an option to join the next respawn, use a revive syringe if you have one and whether a medic is on the way or not. For all you know Join next respawn takes you into limbo with your large map and no spec. At this point the excuse for kill are getting flimsier and flimsier.
Having kill is a mechanic that can be abused, having kill renders an intended game mechanic useless… i’m sure info gathered from interrogation is just as or more important towards the teamplay overall than what little info only you get from a few secs spectating someone else. I have no idea why SD would allow an option that renders a proper feature useless, unless you can interrogate a soulless body whose conciousness is in someone elses head watching what they’re doing.
I also like how the separation has already begun “you either want XP or you want to play high level games”… what, you’re not allowed both?
Given that SD have added a quick selection feature that allows players to double tap in the mission menu, it seems they are quite aware that players dont want to be idle in game.
Secondly Ive already posted my reasons as to why spectating team mates is important. However Im not surprised that someone like yourself, who is concerned of being denied XP would quite comprehend how /kill is used in a competitive setting. Also until SD state otherwise, I’ll presume that the ability to spectate, and the ability to configure the game, out of the game is possible in Brink.
Also interrogation will be removed from competitive play, for the same reason that Radar was removed in ETQW. It doesn’t promote communication amongst the team. Therefore, /kill or tapping out doesn’t deny any player the opportunity to interrogate.
Separation? Im pretty sure Exedore stated, that they were leaning towards /kill for more advanced competitive gametypes. IF you feel strongly against the mechanic, the logical thing to do would be to stick to campaign or offline modes, would it not?
Maybe you want to play with the big boys, without actually being one?
Missed the point? I dont think so champ.
Yeah didn’t read it… join the discussion in a mature manor or your points wont be taken seriously at all and are not welcomed. Constructive criticism… try that one again and see how we go, if you prefer to act like a child then cya.
Yes it would be better as it means there’s a hurdle to overcome before you die. Makes a player think twice whether just walking or even capturing a new command post isn’t a better plan.
It’s not important at all, it’s just a luxury that has been granted to you in the past games, just like /kill. It’s just a convenient feature which doesn’t make the game more tactical at all. Competition players want everything the easy way and I still don’t understand what’s competitive about that. It’s definitely not more hardcore than the pub players who accept the consequences of their things they do in a game without trying a way to bail out of it.
Why does a competition setting have to be the equivalent of a rubber coated playground in the game? Why are it the pub players who want a rougher, harsher environment to play in?
Also interrogation will be removed from competitive play, for the same reason that Radar was removed in ETQW. It doesn’t promote communication amongst the team. Therefore, /kill or tapping out doesn’t deny any player the opportunity to interrogate.
Here’s what I don’t understand, if you don’t like the way a game is going, why not just opt for a different game? You clearly don’t appreciate the complexity that comes with upgrades and abillities in a game and I’m sure there are dozens of other, more simple shooters for players like you.
I’m just baffled how you’re complaining about things that form the very fundaments of this game. It’s like saying “For competitive chess play, all pawns will be removed from the game, stupid noob pieces”
Separation? Im pretty sure Exedore stated, that they were leaning towards /kill for more advanced competitive gametypes. IF you feel strongly against the mechanic, the logical thing to do would be to stick to campaign or offline modes, would it not?
Players should be free to ruin a game in their own competition. So what are you even argueing about? While most people in this thread were discussing the ingame implications of the /kill function and whether it would be positive or negative for the game you just throw your pacifier out of the pram even while you already got what you wanted.
Maybe you want to play with the big boys, without actually being one?
Missed the point? I dont think so champ.
Oh you definitely missed the point of this discussion. We weren’t talking about whether players should be free to adjust the game in whatever fashion they want. Though after I heard you talking I certainly am in favour of a level of quality-protection similar to QW. There definitely needs to be good filter system to make sure I won’t ever accidentally enter one of these glorious comp holes you described.
No, we were talking about whether /kill is a good thing for the game. I’ve heard some good arguments for why it would be a good thing, but they were based on a fundamental difference in taste and they certainly weren’t coming from you.
EDIT: Oh and here’s another one for you, how the hell can you say that interrogation removes team communication because it gives opponent locations away while at the same time one of your main arguments for the /kill is that you can SPECTATE your own team mates to gather information?! I dare not think of the many knots you need to twist your logic into in order to hold that as a consistent point of view.
all /kill can do is make you die sooner than you perhaps would’ve otherwise, whether doing it was beneficial to the team or not you’ll never know.
having /kill enables the members of the defending team to push out to slow down the next attack wave a little if they managed to clear the area they were defending long before their next spawn time. since the attacking team only needs to win a fight once to achieve an objective and both the attackers and defenders have equally powerful tools, and the only advantage a defending team has is positioning, pushing out would be just stupid since you’d lose the positional advantage. in effect, the defending team could only push out as far as having enough time to retreat back to good positions before their next spawn time would allow, and since this time is usually something like 6-7 seconds at best, it would mean it would be stupid to push out, period. also, you do not spawn at the objective, so /kill:ing is often a gamble.
for the attacking team, killing yourself means your team loses time, you cannot damage the defense when you are traveling to where they are from your spawn. and if you didn’t, you might’ve killed the whole defending team for all you know.
the tactical aspect of /kill is more visible in stopwatch mode where every second counts.
but the reason why /kill is very important in comp play is it lessens the effects of the fatal flaw in a timed respawn system, and that is that your enemy knows your exact spawntime.
[QUOTE=Qhullu;231545]all /kill can do is make you die sooner than you perhaps would’ve otherwise, whether doing it was beneficial to the team or not you’ll never know.
(…)
but the reason why /kill is very important in comp play is it lessens the effects of the fatal flaw in a timed respawn system, and that is that your enemy knows your exact spawntime.[/QUOTE]
there isn’t always an option to make yourself unkillable after your spawntimer hits zero. that can only happen in very specific geometric structures, so without a /kill option, every attack would need an exit strategy and so be more like a poke than a push.
if your goal is to make the game slower paced in comp play, removing /kill is a good choice.
edit:
He didn’t play QW I am guessing… sounds like he thinks you instantly respawn when slash killing.
nah, i thought it was obvious that i didn’t mean spending 20-30 seconds in limbo can be beneficial to your team, but that retreating instead of /kill:ing might have been more beneficial to your team. of course written from the perspective of the attacking team since /kill is more like a reward (which can backfire) for clearing the attack for the defending team. (didn’t play QW, but i do play ET)
[QUOTE=Qhullu;231566]there isn’t always an option to make yourself unkillable after your spawntimer hits zero. that can only happen in very specific geometric structures, so without a /kill option, every attack would need an exit strategy and so be more like a poke than a push.
if your goal is to make the game slower paced in comp play, removing /kill is a good choice.
[/QUOTE]
Glad we agree on that one then. If dying doesn’t mean anything, then neither does killing anymore. You’ll essentially be shooting at someone who kills himself only to see him coming at you again five seconds later.
I consider respawning an exterior mechanic which shouldn’t be a tactical option.
[QUOTE=tokamak;231573]Glad we agree on that one then. If dying doesn’t mean anything, then neither does killing anymore. You’ll essentially be shooting at someone who kills himself only to see him coming at you again five seconds later.
I consider respawning an exterior mechanic which shouldn’t be a tactical option.[/QUOTE]
in a way yes, deaths/kills have no value in themselves.
but in another way deaths/kills mean everything. the game is like an organism where every action everyone involved performs affects how it grows, so none of the actions have any intrinsic value other than how they affect the growth pattern. how the change in the growth pattern affects the growth that happens after it is a result of the growth that happens after it. generally speaking though, killing someone who has a long time remaining until their next spawn time can be quite meaningful, even “game changing”. so not dying with lots of time remaining on spawn clock is one of the top priorities for everyone in comp play.
removing /kill makes full spawns far more likely to occur, they do happen even with /kill being an option but only as a result of some big mistake or bad decision on the part of the person who does the dying. in comp play, during a fight when your spawn timer starts to approach zero, your opponent often stops shooting to conserve ammo. if this happens when you’re for example defending the first stage in goldrush, it likely means the attackers have won the stage and you have nowhere to back out to, so the remaining members of your team should /kill and change their spawn to the second stage. you do need to know the map to fully understand how big a deal a lack of /kill in this situation really would be, but i wasn’t able to come up with a generic example.
so basically not only should the defending team lose the stage, the remaining members of the defending team should be forced to always be out of play for a full spawn following that too? knowing the enemy spawn time is just as easy to “abuse” as /kill.
in (high level) comp play, the attacks are nearly always timed based on one or both of the spawn times, so let’s say the attack is executed 6 seconds before the spawn time of the defending team, and it has been successful in killing 3 people out of the 5 in the defending team without anyone dying on the attacking team when there’s 2 seconds left to the spawn time of the defending team. the 3 dead defenders will spawn at the second stage spawn because the attacking team has positional advantage in the area now, and losing that battle would be disastrous. but since the level geometry doesn’t allow the 2 remaining defenders to retreat, it’s relatively easy for the attacking team to stay alive and just not shoot at them (or shoot at them enough to kill them) during those 2 seconds while making sure they can be easily killed after those 2 seconds. depending on what weapons and how much health the 2 defenders have (both are relatively apparent information, health level to at least someone on the attacking team), some of the attacking team can likely even start heading for the second stage defender spawn, it takes less than 10 seconds to reach the second spawn area from the first objective and the defenders spawn at 30 second intervals, so there is 20 seconds where the game is 3vs5 because knowing the enemy spawn time can be “abused”.
yes that was a very specific scenario but explaining that in a general way would have been even more complicated, the principle behind that explanation can be applied to countless “real world” scenarios though. all this doesn’t really matter in pubs ofc.
The vast majority of people I have talked to that play any and all team shooter games have said that they would demand some form of respawning in and out of competitive play if there is a timed spawn wave. Removing respawning from a team shooter will completely ruin the point of the game (there is nothing competitive/advanced about it). If you don’t want any form of respawning, then go play TDM.
You get command posts and changeable classes/gear while alive in return, it only makes things less easy and through this thread I’ve learned that ‘competitive’ is synonymous to ‘easy’.
Yes I understand your point, but no I do not think players should have that ease of killing oneself. Creatively offing yourself if it’s really worth it, is a skill by itself.
i guess you could call it “easy”, i think “opposite of awkward” would be more accurate, or “undistracting”, but “easy” is as good a word as any i guess. and sure, in the scenario i outlined in the previous post, the defending team could drop some nades 5 seconds before their spawn just in case they need to kill themselves, or shoot at each other so that only one of them misses the spawn.
anyways, i guess i managed to explain a little bit of the reasoning behind some people wanting /kill to remain. so i’m happy.
