Abilities and upgrades

(Exedore) #121

This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:

(Jamieson) #122

[QUOTE=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

Its good your allowing it for comp but perhaps it should be a server mode/option for pub, that way Server admins can choose to have it on or off depending on their views/rules etc. Seems like the ideal solution instead of flat out saying it wont happen in pub matches. Choice is always better than restrictions and alienating people, thats my view anyway.

(Ragoo) #123

[QUOTE=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

I think: I love you guys , exactly what I wanted! :stroggbanana:

(DarkangelUK) #124

My view is not having it will at all (broken record,sorry! Worked for QL… even at the highest level) not a big deal if it is in there though, i’m sure i’ll cope :slight_smile:

(Joe999) #125

[QUOTE=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
[/QUOTE]

i absolutely hate /kill because it’s been abused too often. but as long as it’s not in a firefight, i have no problem.

my suggestions:

  • /killers start with lower health than usual
  • /killers start with empty sprint bar (given there is one) after respawn
  • /killers lose xp
  • firefight /kill prevention: if /kill happens within 3 seconds of last hit, the one who hit the /killer gets additional xp (eg half of that if he would have killed the /killer). alternatively the entire team could get xp.

in short: cowardness / failure to win a firefight / failure to survive should be punished.

(Ragoo) #126

@Joe999

That is why they won’t allow it in the basic campaign, cause player get frustrated when they don’t gain the XP for the kill because the other player just does /kill in the middle of the gunfight.
The XP problem however is unimportant for comp players who don’t care that much about the XP to buy things after the match but rather care about winning the actual match. And it doesn’t matter if you kill your enemy or he does /kill, he’s dead anyway (unless you knew the enemy spawn timer and tried to kill him after it hit 0, which would be ultra highskilled :stuck_out_tongue: )

(AnthonyDa) #127

[quote=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:[/quote]
Just put it as a server cvar.

(Joe999) #128

[QUOTE=Ragoo;231235]That is why they won’t allow it in the basic campaign, cause player get frustrated when they don’t gain the XP for the kill because the other player just does /kill in the middle of the gunfight.
The XP problem however is unimportant for comp players who don’t care that much about the XP to buy things after the match but rather care about winning the actual match. And it doesn’t matter if you kill your enemy or he does /kill, he’s dead anyway (unless you knew the enemy spawn timer and tried to kill him after it hit 0, which would be ultra highskilled :stuck_out_tongue: )[/QUOTE]

it’s definitely NOT about xp. if the opponent in front of you /kills himself during a fight, it takes the fun out of the game.

(tokamak) #129

[QUOTE=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

In W:ET and ETQW the only way to change your class and setup was to die (or pick up a different weapon, granted). In Brink this is not the case which takes away the most important excuse to selfkill.

If selfkilling isn’t about changing your setup, then it leaves very lame other reasons, like regaining full hp, quick relocation etc. These are cop-outs, not highly tactical deciscions. The alternative you guys have presented, the command post, is of far higher tactical value. It means that next to focusing on the objectives, players will also have to wage a war of locations on the map in order to maintain flexibillity and efficiency. /Killing would take a huge incentive to fight for that away.

In this context /killing indeed looks more like a cheat than anything else. Sure a mild cheat but a cheat nonetheless.

Brink needs to be treated as a different case in this discussion, it’s definitely not the same as the past two ET’s.

(Exedore) #130

I’m actually referring more to the class and weapon changing facilities implied with /kill, it just seemed easier to use that phrase after the context of this discussion. I can’t go into more specifics yet, but that’s not the exact implementation. We’re still very aware of people abusing it.

(INF3RN0) #131

[QUOTE=Exedore;231223]This is actually something that has been under discussion here fairly recently. It’s a tricky one… ‘/kill’ is not intuitive or necessary for newer players, yet for advanced players it can be of high tactical value. So, we’re compromising at the moment, and allowing it in our more advanced and competitive game modes, but not the basic campaign. What do you guys and gals think?
:stroggtapir:[/QUOTE]

I think that you should have an option that will allow you to catch the next spawn wave at 00. It is not just an extra bit of strategy for competitive play, but an essential part of the timed spawn wave team shooter games. Sure you can change classes at command posts now etc, but the goal is to increase the amount of team work by allowing people to quickly regroup in a very convenient way and increasing the team work. The only reason that respawning in general appears to be more competitive oriented is because very few people in the pub acknowledge its importance. Anyways I think that the suggestion made by DarkAngel would satisfy everyone with varying feelings on the subject. The respawn feature could still be used as intended and those pesky rage-respawners wouldn’t be able to kill out mid fight. Also, along the lines of the covert class and being able to kill out before or during interrogation, I am not quite sure what your final plans are for that, but I think it would be cool if the covert had an alt spawn timer for the enemies spawn waves under such a system in order to time their attacks without issues.

(INF3RN0) #132

Changing classes is most definitely not the most important purpose of the respawn feature, as well as being its only intended use; read above ^.

(MILFandCookies) #133

[QUOTE=tokamak;231244]In W:ET and ETQW the only way to change your class and setup was to die (or pick up a different weapon, granted). In Brink this is not the case which takes away the most important excuse to selfkill.

If selfkilling isn’t about changing your setup, then it leaves very lame other reasons, like regaining full hp, quick relocation etc. These are cop-outs, not highly tactical deciscions. The alternative you guys have presented, the command post, is of far higher tactical value. It means that next to focusing on the objectives, players will also have to wage a war of locations on the map in order to maintain flexibillity and efficiency. /Killing would take a huge incentive to fight for that away.

In this context /killing indeed looks more like a cheat than anything else. Sure a mild cheat but a cheat nonetheless.

Brink needs to be treated as a different case in this discussion, it’s definitely not the same as the past two ET’s.[/QUOTE]

Wage a war of locations? Thanks for the laughs champ :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #134

Making command posts the only method of changing your set up is the most compelling to me. I would remove limbo altogether, sure it gave the players lots of flexibility, but how cool is that you can actually contest this freedom to adapt (on top of all the other advantages command posts might give) with the enemy?

Good, then I’ll shut up about it’s implications in ET and QW as there’s no alternative. But it also means there really is no reason for it anymore in Brink.

(H0RSE) #135

Its good your allowing it for comp but perhaps it should be a server mode/option for pub, that way Server admins can choose to have it on or off depending on their views/rules etc. Seems like the ideal solution instead of flat out saying it wont happen in pub matches. Choice is always better than restrictions and alienating people, thats my view anyway.

lol, are you never satisfied? He just said they will keep it in for the comp, veteran players (freemode play) but leave it out for Campaign, which is a good compromise, and your reaction is, “Well, that’s a good start, but let’s just go the whole 9 yards…” He said it’s not necessary for newer players, and many of them don’t even know the /kill command even exists. Why even introduce it to them?

“Seems like the ideal solution instead of flat out saying it wont happen in pub matches.”

He never said it couldn’t happen in pub matches, he said it wouldn’t happen in CAMPAIGN. You can still play pub matches that aren’t Campaign, thus, the option will be there for you.

The Campaign mode is Brink’s version of “Story mode,” and most likely the mode new players are going to start on. You think maybe they could leave that mode untouched?..

(light_sh4v0r) #136

I’m in favour of keeping /kill in, it’s a great tool for coordinated pushes, because everyone can spawn together and noone has to waste his time waiting for his teammates to respawn.
Going in on your own was never a good idea in any teamgame.

(DarkangelUK) #137

Which a ‘Respawn at 00’ option would be perfect for :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #138

Delaying your team by dying is a proper penalty, with the /kill system dying would hold less weight as you can negate the effects. You can prevent yourself from being the weakest link which is totally lame.

(Ragoo) #139

? You can still suicide, the question is if that would be better than /kill…

(INF3RN0) #140

Ummm, no. If you die at any time then your penalized by waiting for the next wave and spawning way back at your base/forward. Having to go all the way back to the objective is enough of a penalty in itself. The pros of respawning greatly outweigh the cons. Respawning under the right situation, if you were all alone or in the wrong area for example, would allow you to regroup with your teammates. If you weren’t able to respawn however, people would be encouraged to play less like a team and worry more about not dying or dying at the right time; plus it would be incredibly hard to try and coordinate pushes. Lots of unnecessary trouble with very little gain.