Abilities and upgrades

[INF3RN0]

Excuse my ignorance (a genuine query), but isn’t it the leagues and ladder admins that determine the rules and not the players themselves?sway.

They don’t tend to argue with promod . They do however decide on the game mode and format (6v6, etc). Promod players bring the issues to the attention of the modders, which tend to focus on refining the game elements that are already there instead of creating new ones.

[DarkangelUK]

So who decides who’s qualified to make those judgments? It seems like a format was decided upon many many years ago, and for some reason everyone seems to think that’s what must be stuck to from here on out, because what the comp crowd are asking for now is exactly what I was playing 9 years ago in RtCW leagues. What’s the point in a new game if you’re going to strip it bare and revert back to the same play style of an old game? It just strengthens what a few have said, all you want is ET with new graphics. Hell at times I feel you’d even remove SMART if it were possible!

[INF3RN0]

So who decides who’s qualified to make those judgments? It seems like a format was decided upon many many years ago, and for some reason everyone seems to think that’s what must be stuck to from here on out, because what the comp crowd are asking for now is exactly what I was playing 9 years ago in RtCW leagues. What’s the point in a new game if you’re going to strip it bare and revert back to the same play style of an old game? It just strengthens what a few have said, all you want is ET with new graphics. Hell at times I feel you’d even remove SMART if it were possible!

Not everyone wants to strip it down, but of course that is the popular sense of reasoning. Just like how everyone mixes up 6v6 league format in QW with the actual promod change list lmao… I doubt Brink promod and league play will be that restricting considering the game is designed for 8v8. It will however address anything that is overpowered, exploitable, etc, oh lord noez.

[Ragoo]

What’s the point in a new game if you’re going to strip it bare and revert back to the same play style of an old game? It just strengthens what a few have said, all you want is ET with new graphics.

It’s true that a lot of people want everything to be like ET but capable Promod developers like hannes don’t just make the game ET with new graphics. They are just trying to make the new things in a game balanced if that’s needed and ONLY if it’s impossible to balance something for comp play they remove it.

Just look at what they did with ET:QW and Wolfenstein (yes, the ****ty failgame Wolfenstein) Promod

[nemezote]

I dont want to sound harsh guys, but I find that 9 out of 10 times skill beats balance. Im no guru or anything, but in most FPSs ive played I can get around and frag really well with almost any weapon and perks (in case of CoD).

I dont mean to say that I dont like balanced stuff, im just saying that most of the time it pales in comparisson to good skills.

More to the topic, I’d like to see as many abilities and upgrades as the developers can cram into the game! Im really excited about the customization aspect.

PS: Im not even mentioning moving and shooting mechanics because I think they got those nailed down a while ago.

[tokamak]

Excuse my ignorance (a genuine query), but isn’t it the leagues and ladder admins that determine the rules and not the players themselves? From back in my clan days (quite a while ago in RtCW, Q3 and early W:ET), the servers were set up to mirror the league rules to keep consistency in gameplay, even down to graphics settings… you seem to be talking here as if everything will be decided by some mass democracy. In fact I doubt any one here will have a say on the rules of comp play at all, or at least a very small few who have sway.

The question who decides the rules wasn’t really relevant in the discussion. The question was why it’s always the comp players that want to remove all the hurdles in a game.

[DarkangelUK]

Yes, and it’s who ever decides that rules for removing stuff that got them into that mindset. They’re used to playing a certain way because the leagues make them play that way, and their blind following makes them think that all games should be played that way.

[Apples]

Still wondering in which way that hurts you guyz? not happy with the comp rules? Do not play comp and good riddance…

Peace

[DarkangelUK]

Mutual rules that satisfy both parties stop division and empty servers, therefore prolonging the life of the game. Having 2 separate communities would be as well having 2 separate games. RtCW pub and comp servers more or less played the same, and I had no qualms playing on both, ETQW arsed about, stripped down, pissy rules servers mean I have no interest in playing a shell of the game I bought. But lemme guess, ranked servers hurt that… but wait, if the core play wasn’t butchered to hell and back, then you wouldn’t have had to unrank the server in the 1st place.

[Jamieson]

You seem to be making the assumption that comp players never play on pub servers and that pub players will never get involved in scrims at some point whilst playing the game. They are both linked, you need a good stable community and a comp community to keep a game alive.

[AnthonyDa]

Yes, and it’s who ever decides that rules for removing stuff that got them into that mindset. They’re used to playing a certain way because the leagues make them play that way, and their blind following makes them think that all games should be played that way.

Restriction made for competitive matches are here to balance the game.
I’m quite sure that you can understand that playing a 6v6 with 3tanks against you on QW isn’t very balanced. It works fine on 12v12 pub, but not in match.
Please notice that there are dozen of examples like that for any competitive game, so don’t do you tokamak by pointing out a potential flaw on my single example, thx.

[Jamieson]

At its core promod is just vanilla but more stable and some of the vehicle spawns are changed to make the game more balanced. You can even have vanilla spread if you want.

As AnthonyDa said the Clanbase rules are in place to create a good enviroment for matches instead of 20minute holds because the attackers couldn’t get out there base because the defenders had 2 Plasma mortas up, The tormentor, A Cyclops and Desi etc etc. The restrictions are there basicly to stop SPAM and to force players to use the deployables and vehicles tactically.

You know we used to play without the restrictions and it wasn’t fun hence why CB put the restrictions on because people were complaining about it. The Admins didn’t just go oh well we want these rules lets put them on without consulting people, basicly THE RESTRICTIONS ARE THERE FOR A REASON.

[DarkangelUK]

The most played online fps at the moment have comp play that’s very close to standard pub play, with simple restrictions in place rather than all out butchering… the only difference is the honed teamwork that comes with clan play. Play QL/Q3, CS/CSS, dare I say MW and MW2 in comp and you’re not far from the core game itself. There were major cuts and ‘balancing’ done to ETQW… how’s that comp scene holding up?

[Jamieson]

You cannot make comparisons between a game that started off with a huge community and a game like ETQW that had a poor release.

This is what I said when you need a strong stable community and a decent sized comp community.

[DarkangelUK]

Yes, lets not look at successful games and see what they did right… that’d be silly.

[Jamieson]

Yes, lets not look at successful games and see what they did right… that’d be silly.

Because lots of money = success right? Factors such as having a ****ty publisher don’t come into this at all? COD has lots of players yet its a terrible game.

ETQW in my eyes is the 2nd best MP game of the decade only behind WET.

[Apples]

Balance in these games is really easier to achieve as the teams are symetrical, the spread is already almost 0, there arent multiple objectives,there arent vehicles, these are more classical game, run n shoot (I know its more than that, but you grasp the point here)

In a complex game ala etqw the 12V12 pub play simply cannot work in a competition environment, cuzz fielding a team of 12 is almost impossible for a normal crew…

Peace

[DarkangelUK]

@Jamieson

No because successful = success… who mentioned money except you? We wont get into the finer points of MW2’s success as it’s hard to show objectiveness to the ignorant. But I do like how you dwelled on the last game mentioned (that was even preluded with “dare I say”) and ignore the other games… or even the point entirely. The games that evolved to popular comp status did and still are to some degree doing very well while sticking very close to the vanilla core gameplay, the game you seem to think needed slicing and dicing isn’t doing so well. Sure lay that blame on marketing and ****ty publisher, Q3 wasn’t a roaring success when it was released and it still thrived.

You have no idea what makes a balanced comp game, you’ve been told what does and you’ve followed that… but for some reason the sheep now want to lead, and for some reason seem to think using other games as a template is the way to go. You’ve got your knives at the ready preparing to cut stuff out that you’ve seen on paper without even comprehending the thought behind it… you just know it isn’t in game A that you liked a lot, so shouldn’t be in game B that you’ve barely even seen. If it’s players like you that are leading the comp scene… then I fear for it already.

[BioSnark]

[quote=Apples;233403]Still wondering in which way that hurts you guyz? not happy with the comp rules? Do not play comp and good riddance…[/quote]Yet, when the roles are reversed, this criticism is accepted without question. I agree with some of the restrictions in comp rules but certain comp players should stop playing on vanilla public servers or stop talking. Just saying,

[tokamak]

[QUOTE=Apples;233403]Still wondering in which way that hurts you guyz? not happy with the comp rules? Do not play comp and good riddance…

Peace[/QUOTE]

Very true, and that’s why I’m all for a comp mod. League organiszes need ALL the power to amend the game however they please if that means they stop demanding the vanilla version becomes further stripped.

But all that aside, I still don’t understand why adding more liberty to a game (either through simplifying it or removing hurdles) is a typical competitive characteristic, why don’t comp players want complex games?