A word on individual skill


(Verticae) #1

There’s been quite a bit of discussion here on personal skill; both when it comes to tactical aspects, as well as to aim. I figured I’d throw in my two cents. Mind you, this is oriented towards PC players. If you want to chip in as a console player, by all means do, but mechanics can be different.

I’ll kick it off with the dreaded comparison to other games; but not in terms of mechanics. Rather, I’d like to take a closer look at the common complaints seen in gaming communities. One may argue that that’s a very subjective topic, but I’ll try to pick out the complaints that you’ll read about the moment you start playing, be it through server messages, fellow players or community forums.

We’ll start with a very well-known one: Camping. Common in a fair number of popular games, but for this example, we’ll use Counterstrike, seeing as pretty much everyone knows the game. The amount of people having trouble with this, has reached a point where popular server-side admin mods have automated anti-camping systems. Why do people dislike camping so much? Because it’s too easy. It takes no skill, and players don’t like putting in effort moving towards their goal if their opponent is barely even touching the WASD keys.

Moving along, we come to Call of Duty. I’m sure many of you are familiar with this game, and in particular, with the noobtube (or rifle-mounted grenade launcher). This weapon is banned from use on an excessively high number of servers, and why? Because players don’t want to put in effort trying to take down their opponent, when their opponent only needs to shoot once in their general direction.

I could go on about this for a fairly long time, with things such as ET’s panzerfaust, ETQW’s flying vehicles, Battlefield’s flyers, Bad Company 2’s M60, Day Of Defeat’s assault spray… Thing is, there’s a lot of games where players have had trouble with elements in the game. The general consensus to these things, is that players tend to dislike it when other players have to put in significantly less effort than they do in order to beat them. From the past, though, we can also see that through server rules and mods, these items are moderated; either through being outright banned, or from being restricted in number/power/etc.

How does this apply to Brink, you ask? It relates to the relatively low skill ceiling this game currently has. All the aforementioned problems come from players feeling that despite the effort they put in, they’re getting beaten by people who aren’t trying: their individual skill is not rewarded. Brink does the same thing; no matter how well you aim, how well you move; the outcome of a duel is still heavily dependant on whether or not you happen to randomly hit a head.

Of course, Brink has a heavy tactical aspect, but does this rule out the need for individual skill? When I look at games with similar aspects, such as Enemy Territory and its sequel, Quake Wars, there’s a distinct flow to the game, where individual skill was needed to perform smooth team-based action - or disrupt it. With this style, individual performace is rewarded, and teamwork still essential. All in all, it’s a much more gratifying mix for the player; it’s part of that mix that makes a game ‘fun’.


(SinDonor) #2

As a previous PC gamer, and now console gamer who regularly gets head-shotted by Red-bull drinking 13 year olds in games like CoD, BFBC2 and Halo, I am happy I have a chance in Brink.

I have not yet ONCE rage-quit a game of Brink. Even getting spawn camped on CC, I still have fun trying to flashbang and molotov my way out of the spawn area.

I am getting back into PC gaming (again) once BF3 is out and I build a new PC.


(gooey79) #3

Taking aside Brink, in every example you’ve given; the ‘offending’ player can be beaten.

Camping isn’t necessarily easy. A highly skilled player will overcome a low skilled player in most situations. For ‘noob tubers’ there’s perks to help counter the damage. For vehicles, there’s vehicles on your own team; artillery and rocket launchers…

I put it down to laziness on the part of the complainer, to be honest.


(murka) #4

Well Vert is right. Of course you can counter those cheap ‘tactics’, but the point is, they are cheap. Probably in pub play you won’t notice it, but cheap tactics only work one way, makes the user feel happy and the target pissed.
Honestly, when i played cod and killed people with the noobtube i got bored quickly. It’s quite retarded that there is a way to kill players who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I remember in w:et and etqw situations where i lost to someone and thought “he’s better than me”. It’s a bizarre feeling, but really makes the game feel right. In brink you can’t really measure skill. Is a good player the one who happens to be lucky most? In etqw it was easy, you do multiple duels, lose more than he does, he’s better, simple.

Losing mustn’t feel frustrating. This is what kills a game. Mechanics like camping, noobtubing and duels dependent on luck more than skill are frustrating.


(gooey79) #5

It’s all opinion and whilst yours is the more ‘popular’ one, it doesn’t change the fact that for the best part they’re all valid tactics/styles.

Much of it comes down to individual style. Nothing more. Everyone is different, good at different things so they play to their strengths.

Chances are, if you’re frustrated by a camper; the camper is beating you. People rarely complain when they’re winning.


(Englander) #6

If you aim well in a toe to toe duel while strafing the other player drops simple, if they don’t you’re missing the target. The hit detection on Brink is much better than ETQW ever was for me. When it comes to lucky head shots well that can be applied to all FPS games, however if you aim for the head you are likely to get head shots! I have found that a lot of players don’t move that much on Brink, which makes it even easier to kill them :slight_smile:

I should say I use the carb and belgo mainly!


(kilL_888) #7

aside from all the randomness in brink, there is also skill involved. i know when i fight against a skilled player. that player kills me in an instant with the carb. its no fun, but it sure is skill. or aimbot? guess not. its frustrating non the less.

[QUOTE=*goo;354753]
Chances are, if you’re frustrated by a camper; the camper is beating you. People rarely complain when they’re winning.[/QUOTE]

you miss the point. its not about whos beating whom. its about making an effort killing people who dont have any effort killing someone else using easy tactics.

sitting in a corner, waiting for a player to surprise and kill him, involves no skill whatsoever. it may require patience to sit and wait, but thats it.


(Crytiqal) #8

how can you measure the hit detection?

Ofcourse your gonna hit SOMETHING when the spread is so rediculous


(thesuzukimethod) #9

or if they do, they charge right at you, so you + ADS vs. them with spread associated with running means you get them first. (or in the case of me yesterday, they get me first…it had been a week since i last played, and it took me a bit to get my Ark legs back*)…lol

*and stop charging straight ahead at my duel opponent


(Englander) #10

[QUOTE=Crytiqal;354780]how can you measure the hit detection?

Ofcourse your gonna hit SOMETHING when the spread is so rediculous[/QUOTE]

The spread on the carb and belgo at close range is very small, go shoot a wall and you can see the spread is tiny at close range.


(Verticae) #11

[QUOTE=*goo;354738]Taking aside Brink, in every example you’ve given; the ‘offending’ player can be beaten.

Camping isn’t necessarily easy. A highly skilled player will overcome a low skilled player in most situations. For ‘noob tubers’ there’s perks to help counter the damage. For vehicles, there’s vehicles on your own team; artillery and rocket launchers…

I put it down to laziness on the part of the complainer, to be honest.[/QUOTE]

Yes, if you put in even more effort and prepare for every opponent to use that tactic, that’s a very valid analysis. But that’s not how it goes.


(NthLegion) #12

Brink may have a low aiming skill cap, but it also has a fairly high tactics skill cap. That said, I would like to see tighter spread on most of the assault rifles.


(shirosae) #13

I’m only having fun in an FPS if I’m being pushed to the limit of my ability, and slightly beyond. The reason I adored ETQW propub servers so much was that I was thrown into games against people who were definitely better than me, on a platform that moved the skill ceiling upwards until it was high enough that their better gameplay was important in each and every fight.

As soon as the game comes down to a diceroll or spam or cheap gimmicks, all the fun vanishes. It doesn’t really matter so much if I win or lose, as long as my ability to play is being pushed to the limit by someone else’s ability to play.

That doesn’t mean I always want a super-pure ego-shooter experience. I just want to be able to test my ability directly against someone else’s. All of this autopilot unibutton lottery spread stuff gets in the way of that. Disappointing.


(Jess Alon) #14

Sometimes when I shoot with my rockstedi and I have someone DEAD center in my crosshairs I totally miss. I’m not sure if this is the RS having some sort of hitbox issue. Or if it’s a lag thing.


(jazevec) #15

There’s still one weapon which rewards personal skill: the Lobster. It has a spread of 0.1, that’s just amazingly accurate for Brink.


(alberto) #16

my opinion is that if i want a 100% tactic game where i dont have to proof other personal skills, i play chess.
It’s cheaper and doesnt need 5 players for team :wink:


(Tandem) #17

[QUOTE=Verticae;354728]All the aforementioned problems come from players feeling that despite the effort they put in,
they’re getting beaten by people who aren’t trying: their individual skill is not rewarded.[/QUOTE]

What I don’t understand is the attitude of campers or anyone
who uses a cheap tactic, when it’s pointed out.

Most but not all usually get defensive about it.
A cheap kill is cheap kill, and any game that can reduce the amount of no-skill kills is truly great.
Verbatim, that’s what SD set out to do, but we all know the rest.

The problem exists in all games to a degree, but Brink carries this much more than
their previous titles, and on top of that, it misleads buyers by it’s marketing.

ETQW for example, my biggest hang-ups were the tanks who exclusively hunted infantry,
the rocket launcher campers and radar. Yes they can be countered because every player
can engage in the same tactic, fighting fire with fire, but that only moves us further away
from rewarding skills of hand+eye coordination and battlesense.
Rewarding players based on anything else seems counterproductive.

In Brink, dealing with spread, downfire, buffed weapons, grenade shooting and adrenalin
puts a notch on any players board who is willing to participate, and why not participate
when kills make the ultimate difference. SD included them, now we have to deal with them;
of course the below average player, and even the average player will enjoy these,
but it’s also guaranteed to annoy the sh** out of skilled players.


(Verticae) #18

You realise that its predecessor, ETQW, had even more tactical options than Brink, right?

Allow me to demonstrate with an example; 6v6, Volcano. Attacking team spawn and are faced with a choice: Trickjump East/West/Main, teleport wall, blow seawall, blow main, go through the hills. After the initial push; do you aim to recap the forward spawn, delaying the defenders, or push through to the objective hoping to get a hold around it? What class mix would you use for either tactic? Would you sacrifice 2-3 players to try and hold their spawn? You could also try and lemming your way to the objective; rushing to get a little touch in on it before defenders get you.

And that’s just the metagame. What if during a push on East bunker, two of your teammates get fragged and gibbed? You could try and push on for a little tap on the objective/forward spawn, or selfkill to join in on the spawn so you can attack with full numbers again?

In Brink, you look at a teammate and press F.

gg.


(Gradis) #19

what he said ^

(but with less skill. could of thrown at least a few c*nts and ***** word in there)


(Zarel) #20

Second this. I don’t like some of the folks gripes on “decreasing smg spread”, I find it unnatural. If ever they want to further counteract the dread of the smgs. Maybe, “buffing up” the AR’s would be a solution.