A warning for people upgrading their rigs to play ETQW

(leifhv) #21

My point was that using a wizard-like installer looks retarded when compared to apt-get, synaptic, adept and so on.[/quote]

Not at all…generally, when you install programs in Windows the install wizard allows you to set install parameters like install-directory, port numbers etc. It’s not like the MSI (Windows install package format) doesn’t allow you to install programs without using a wizard you know…but developers choose to use a wizard because it’s a good concept.

Of course, under Linux you’ll have to edit a config file (in some propritary format) after the install to set the parameters you would normally set in the wizard. (And the install location of many files will often be hard-coded so that there are no easy way to change that).

On Windows you just download, start the installer and click next a few time; done!

On Linux you’ll have to hunt for the package in the package format your distribution uses…and often you won’t find it and you’re forced to compile the app yourself, resulting in lots of unresolved dependencies at which point most users will give up.

I’m a long time Linux user myself and Linux certainly has its strong points but the myriad of competing package managers is not one of them. Ofc there are good reasons for the design of the Linux install process but the fact remains…

(B0rsuk) #22

Clueless.
They say a picture is worth a thousand words… and they’re right.
http://web.mornfall.net/adept_installer.html
http://monkeyblog.org/ubuntu/installing/#installing_with_synaptic

Available packages:
http://packages.ubuntulinux.org/dapper/allpackages
You don’t install things manually very often if you have circa 16k packages available in repositories.

Trust me, I used windows for years, and installing software is just painful with windows, by comparison. Or you’re just using RPM-based distro ? That’s funny, because even Fedora has Yum package manager, and can use apt-get, too. Wizards are very evil, especially the clicking. You can install dozens or hundreds of packages (like upgrading a distro to new release) and no dialog bogs you down.

(kamikazee) #23

Gentoo’s emerge is even more fun - it compiles everything unless not told so. In case of unknown packages, you just need to feed it a small install file and it does the rest automatically. (If it’s a well written install script, which is mostly the case.)

Main thing is: it works which keeps me happy.

(leifhv) #24

Clueless.

Maybe, but if this statement is based only on my preference for the Windows install system I think you are being a bit silly.

Showing me random pictures of the GUI for a package manager doesn’t really dispute any of my arguments.

Yes, for some distros you’ll have lots of software in the right format…but as I said, not all of it. Sometimes you’ll be forced to fallback to compiling it yourself.

installing software is just painful with windows

Why? If are are going to discuss this it would be nice with some arguments to back up your statements…and please try to keep it general.

Wizards are very evil, especially the clicking.

Yeah, clicking is sooo evil…I’ve actuelly ripped the buttons off my mouse so I won’t have to click any more!

As I said, any developer is free to create an installer for Windows without any wizard…but nobody does, which should tell you something.

My experience with Linux includes several different distros with several different package managers. I admit that my taste in software is somewhat off the mainstream but my argument about the availability of premade packages still stands.

Imo the install systems on Linux is the major thing holding Linux back in regard to being accepted as a viable alternative to Windows/Mac for the normal user. Sadly, afaik there is no easy way to fix this so we’re stuck with the various package managers. It would help if we could agree on one package system though.

(chr0nicles) #25

I’m using various Unices for a few years now and i’m very pleased, however as a gamer i’ve made the wise choice to make the system dualboot with Windows. There are so many good games that only work with Windows :disgust: I very enjoy the games that are portably designed so that they can run other platforms too :clap: and my appreciations to such developers. :slight_smile:

(ouroboro) #26

I’ve always been of the opinion that the “InstallShield” type wizards are a big part of Windows’ edge over Linux. Whatever else may be true of Windows, you can install programs by just clicking “OK” until an icon appears on your desktop. Nevermind whether it’s an ideal system or not. It’s an easy system, so it wins.

Linux didn’t have anything even remotely close to that for a very long time - time which was conceded to Windows in the desktop wars.

(chr0nicles) #27

I’ve always been of the opinion that the “InstallShield” type wizards are a big part of Windows’ edge over Linux.

Thats indeed where the opinions differ or rather for which people these OS’es are designed.
Some people want an easy to use system, and others want more control and to know what the system is doing.

Where Windows control reaches the edge, Linux or other OS’es continues.

(ParanoiD) #28

But Linux is also a OS that wants to be accesseble for the big public, at least some distro’s. Ubuntu is a good example of a distro that wants to make linux easy and it was good. Adept was easy when I used Kubuntu. But not all programs were available liek Firefox 1.5. Maybe some apps werent available for Kubuntu but still i missed a lot of apps in the list. With the new release of Ubuntu it seems that there is more available and that is good.

(jjpron) #29

From my 3 year old Mac that has locked upon me but once, runs without a virus scanner, and runs a webserver, serving 3 sites, an SSH server accesible from anywhere in the world, that houses 13.61 GB of music, 8000+ photos and has moved half a TB of pr0n, rendering or burning DVDs at the same time, I snicker at thee winblows users.

Oh, and yeah, I do have a winblows machine delegated to such important tasks as ET.
But, to be honest, everything I learned about *nix, I learned from building my own Linux box and running my first web server on it.

(Lanz) #30

Not really trying to defend winblows jjpron, but I fail to see what you say being something that could not be done on said OS.

Ok, besides the virus scanner that is, and no, it doesn’t lock up or bsod either.

(jjpron) #31

Hmm, you have cleverly jumped over my flamebait.
Well met sir, well met.

Although hard to explain, asking your question is like asking what is the difference between American “cheese product” and real Swiss cheese. They’re both cheeses, right. And until you have tried the true Swiss, you might forever be happy with the “cheese product”. But we’re getting offtopic. If it wasn’t for winblows, we might not ever have had QW.
So I’ll make a toast to MS.
(Don’t tell anyone.)

(halfapple) #32

I used to be a hardcore gamer long ago and was in the process of building a new pc.

I was kinda drawn to come back to gaming when a friend linked to me the ETQW trailer - that is what inspired me to want to build another system.

Here is what I am building - and would this be enough to support the upcoming Vista? and DX10? as well as ETQW smoothly?

Athlon 64 X2 5000
Asus M2N32 SLI
Corsair XMS DDR2 PC 8500 (4 gigs -running 4 modules)
Asus 7950 GX2 ( 2 cards in SLI - 2 gigs of graphic memory)
WD1500 Raptor’s 150 gig ( 2 drives )
Tagan TG900- 900 watt pus
Lian Li VCool PC-V1200 B Plus II Case
standard dvd and rw drives and an X-FI sound card

Would this be enough to last a while?

Also would I have any complications using this type of system on DX10 when it is released?

Or have any issues with Vista?

From what I have been researching and asking around the hardware apparently will support the Vista.

What my concern is would be having to upgrade all over again on the video cards just to fly full speed on DX10 =/

Would this also be enough to run ETQW at an enjoyable fast detailed resolution?

(ParanoiD) #33

But why spent so much then (ok youre hardcore) when you dont want to spent money over and over. Vista won’t be a problem for taht rig. DirectX10 wont be supported by the card. You will need to get another one if you want to play with DX10, Still it will run all Vista effects and DX10 games, but not with teh new DX10 extra effects, the game will probably be displayed in DX9.

But really, a X2 4400, 2 GB ram, GeForece 7900GTX would do the job as well for at least 2 years… 1 thing left, if you really want to save money, wait till July 23th. Intel will release the Core 2 Duo (codename conroe) processors by then. A pricewar is expected and price drops of 30-50% by AMD! Also test showed that a midrange Core 2 Duo at 2.66 GHz (about 300-400 bucks) was sometimes 20% faster than a 2.8 GHz AMD Athlon FX-62 which costs about 1000 bucks! So waiting a month should save much money I guess.

(Black_Forky) #34

Or you could just wait until 2009, AMD will have 45nm by then :P. or 2015 (10 nm), or 2020 (1nm), or even 2030 (-10 nm).

(halfapple) #35

Thanks “Para” I appreciate the response.

I’ve been out of the loop on gaming for quite along time - and would like to get back into it.

Spending the 4 grand on a system is ok with me - because I would just like the option to play with all the eye candy on to the fullest.

Anyway…when is the ETA on the DX10 release? or will that be released when the Vista comes out?

Sad that running 2 of the 7950’s wont support the DX10 =/, perhaps I"ll just invest into a cheaper Video Card until nVidia releases something large and compatible with the DX10?

Does anyone have any screen shots of the differance between DX9 and the upcoming DX10?

Is there any major differance quality wise for gaming? or viewing movies etc?

After 23rth of July is when I will purchase the X2 5000 AMD processor - yes.

I just hope that when the newer Graphics Cards are released that support the DX10 - that I wont be screwed on the type of mother board I chose to build my new PC.

Meaning …compatiability and hardware issues and of course driver issues.

By what percent or would there be a major differance with just viewing in DX9 and running the DX10 games?

I really wish the 7950’s would support the DX10 - I really do …gosh having to fork over another thousand dollars on 2 monster cards in SLI just to run DX10 just after I finish building this machine is abit much =/

(Joe999) #36

forget vista and it’s ressource hungry aero desktop for which you need a 3d graphics card. instead check out what bumptop has to offer:

^^awesome imo :slight_smile:

if vista would have that kind of innovation, i’d get it definitely, even if it would mean that i would have to buy a new sys and a 3d graca for the desktop. but not for aero. M$ isn’t innovative enough.

(kamikazee) #37

Awesome to toy around with, that’s true.

(halfapple) #38

What does this have to do with a gaming PC I am building? Why would I want to fold a document during a game or while killing some tard virtually over the net with a rail slug?

(Joe999) #39

nuthin. but i found it totally awesome so i searched an appropriate place to post it :smiley:

but if you need a reference: you mention vista, i tried the beta, vista sucks imo. i wouldn’t get a rig just for vista. i’ll stay with xp as long as possible. quake wars will last at least 2 years for me and there’s no game in sight to top it. so for me my current sys is enough.

if you need a reference to quake wars: notice the circular menus in the vid. if you did watch the quake wars cam vidz, you’ll see that quake wars has similar menus in it’s voice chat. when i studied i’ve only heard that this menu style should be superior to flat menus, never seen them used though.

(halfapple) #40

Quake Wars is the reason why I am going to build a new computer to play once again online :slight_smile:

I used to be a huge Q2 fan and Q1 fan back in the day…day of dinasaurs LOL.

I saw the mini trailer and read a few reviews about Quake Wars and was instantly amazed as well as drawn in to play online one more time.

I hope there is a Rail Gun in Quake Wars would be fun :slight_smile:

Only thing is …the DX10 is only Vista yes? I’d be happy to just stay with XP too as long as possible if Quake Wars will be fine to continue to support it.

I checked out a few other online multiplayer games - but none really captured my attention like Quake Wars did.

Hell I didnt even want to play Q4 or even Doom3 - I stopped playing in the early stages of Q3 and retired perma and went back into the real world.

Looking forward to this new game Quake Wars… I hope it is as good as it appears and the reviews I’ve been reading.

Yes… I am new to this board, sorry should have said /hello before posting - but oh well.

I was curious tho - how many people will the game support when playing multiplayer online?

Will this be similar to the 20 or even 30 ppl at one time ? or just a 6 man mission type of game?

The screen shots are awesome btw GREAT work to the people who created QW!

I did also check out Cryek or whatever the name of the new game coming out in '07 for the DX10 - it also looks fantastic.

But I donno …Quake has always been the Leader of FPS games - and even tho many years have passed since I’ve played online FPS, I’m going to keep my cross hairs on
Quake Wars and stick with them to play thier game!

ID has never dropped the ball when it comes to delivering the best, and I think QuakeWars just might be the next big one!

Hell it got my attention – to want to fork over around 4 grand to build a computer to play this game :slight_smile: