A new approach to cheating ...

[lennyballa]

How fun can it be to cheat? Yes!!! I kill someone without doing anything!! Yes wow this is fun!.. not really . If you give people an aimbot, they never learn. Without any “help”, it’s much more fun to build up some skills. I mean, how fun can it be to see all enemy’s and knowing exactly when they come, and then kill them with an aimbot with auto-shoot+autoreload. Now the only thing you need is an automatic pc starter, that starts ET automatic, launch the game and kill everybody without even breathing! Wow sounds like nights of fun to me .

[chavo_one]

If you can’t prevent something, why not just allow it ?

What kind of defeatist attitude is this?! This is worthy of a thread by itself, but in short, you can’t prevent a lunatic from shooting you dead on the street, but does that mean we should ignore and therefore condone the action?

Anyway, this point has been made already, but you have ignored it. Cheaters would not use an in game aimbot that lets others know they are using it. That would destroy the whole illusion that they are cheating for.

[SCDS_reyalP]

If we are going to have fantasy solutions, I have a better one. Have a squad of thugs who go around to cheaters houses and break their fingers. Adds a whole new meaning to the word Punkbuster

[_POTATO]

Or if someone is caught cheating on a pb server, make it so that they cant access any other pb enabled server, even if they arent on that servers ban list. Then all they are left with is bad non pb servers and the players who are cool and dont cheat can go on with a cheat free life!

[petameta]

[quote=petameta]If you can’t prevent something, why not just allow it ?

What kind of defeatist attitude is this?! This is worthy of a thread by itself, but in short, you can’t prevent a lunatic from shooting you dead on the street, but does that mean we should ignore and therefore condone the action?

Anyway, this point has been made already, but you have ignored it. Cheaters would not use an in game aimbot that lets others know they are using it. That would destroy the whole illusion that they are cheating for.[/quote]

First of all: Don’t take too serious what I said, I had to make some offending attitudes to make you think :). I think most players are quite prejudiced about cheats, and it’s hard to change a prejudiced opinion.

To your second point: As I said before, you do not know. Maybe they would, maybe not. All you (and me too) do is guessing. Without a test nobody knows. So please don’t tell me people would do this or that, accept that you don’t know.

I don’t say this is a perfect solution, it’s just an idea. The only thing I can say is that punkbuster neither is a perfect solution.
Often technical solutions are not sufficient, for example viruses, trojans and so on spread on the net. Anti-virus programs detect many viruses, but some (new ones) not. If people were thinking a bit more (for example, don’t open every attachment), viruses maybe have a hard time.

[BlackDeath]

Ty for removing that post, mods

[Kerunch]

We should ram the rough end of a pineapple up the arse of all cheaters and watch their eyes water. :eek: Thats my mature solution.

[Kerunch]

…sure we think we’re all tough and mighty and clever and top notch debaters

Thats the nicest thing anybody has said about me “sniff”.

[Rockford]

Aside from all the other problems people have pointed out, the main one for me is that I don’t want to play with cheaters. Plain and simple. Therefore, I don’t want the option to use an aimbot, nor do I want anyone else to have that option. In other words: I don’t want to play against aimbotters, whether those bots are legal or illegal. And that’s why, even though cheating cannot be fully eradicated, I would not play any game in which it were allowed. I suspect most players of ET hold the same position I do. We don’t care if third-party cheats would fall out of use once aim-botting were built into the game; and that’s why we don’t care about testing this out. What we want, and what Punkbuster does better than anything else out there, is the greatest limitation of cheats possible.

To wrap up: it’s not that we’re saying your hypothesis is incorrect. We just don’t care.

[Machine_for_to_kill]

what happened to that post from that cheater…what kind of forum is this with people erasing what other people said. That’s not cool. Everyone can say what they want about this thread, cheater or no cheater.

I think we can get rid of cheaters if we bitch enough. If we constantly call them losers and children and other names and make cheating feel like something really degrading, and badly looked upon we’ll eventually get to these cheaters and they won’t do it anymore. Nagging is the perfect solution to everything.

[Kerunch]

Nagging is not the perfect solution.You are obviously not married :banghead:
My wife kept nagging me so I killed her .

[IPvD]

If we are going to have fantasy solutions, I have a better one. Have a squad of thugs who go around to cheaters houses and break their fingers. Adds a whole new meaning to the word Punkbuster

:drink:

[Agrado]

I think the best way to keep cheaters off is to have a much more accurate data gathering system. ET tries to do this but it doesn’t work. Basically just like in ET, at the end of the match you’d be able to see all the player stats. Kills, deaths, accuracy, headshots, bodyshots, shots fired, shots missed etc… I think if you look at these and you notice that a player has 100 kills all headshots 100% accuracy and no misses then you’d know that something was wrong.

I think aimbots allow you to specify the accuracy to add random inaccuracy so you don’t pop up as Mr Magic 100% Accuracy.

ET does implement this but it doesn’t work for some reason (140% accuracy?)

That’s because with things like grenades and panzers you can hurt more than one person with one shot - two hits / one shot = 200% accuracy. That’s why the “highest accuracy” medal-winner is often a panzer player (even the world’s most evil aimbot cheater won’t get 200% accuracy with their SMG ).

[SCDS_reyalP]

That’s because with things like grenades and panzers you can hurt more than one person with one shot - two hits / one shot = 200% accuracy. That’s why the “highest accuracy” medal-winner is often a panzer player (even the world’s most evil aimbot cheater won’t get 200% accuracy with their SMG ).

/statsall
will give you each players stats for each weapon. However, using an aimbot will not usually give people 100% acc, or anything close to that.

Headshots per kill may be a better indicator, but there too, both players and aimbots will have a large variation.

A recent demo from a person who addmitted to using an aimbot on PW showed only 35% SMG acc, and 1.5 hs/kill. Both of those numbers are within reach of a good player.

In general, detecting cheaters by their stats is going to be very difficult, especially if they make some effort to cover their tracks.

[Machine_for_to_kill]

well I’m all out of ideas…

:disgust:

[petameta]

Nice discussion ! Thanks to all who replied :).

[quote=Machine for to kill]I think the best way to keep cheaters off is to have a much more accurate data gathering system. ET tries to do this but it doesn’t work. Basically just like in ET, at the end of the match you’d be able to see all the player stats. Kills, deaths, accuracy, headshots, bodyshots, shots fired, shots missed etc… I think if you look at these and you notice that a player has 100 kills all headshots 100% accuracy and no misses then you’d know that something was wrong.

I think aimbots allow you to specify the accuracy to add random inaccuracy so you don’t pop up as Mr Magic 100% Accuracy.[/quote]

I have to agree, I don’t think better “data gathering” would work good. The problem is that nobody invented an intelligent computer yet. There are many approaches like neural networks, but they are still very limited. How can a computer tell if someone is cheating if it’s often hard even for a human ?

Maybe the random inaccuracy could be added to my idea: As said above, the aimbot shouldn’t be perfect. So I’d like to see an aimbot with different levels. For example, a level 1 Aimbot only helps you a bit, while a level 10 aimbot helps you a lot.

I think we can get rid of cheaters if we bitch enough. If we constantly call them losers and children and other names and make cheating feel like something really degrading

Hmmm, does it work ? Sometimes, but often they just claim they are not cheating, and you are the lamer who doesn’t play good enough to beat em.

I think, if someone does something like this, it shouldn’t be called cheating any longer, because the word in itself has a bad taste … of course :).

What about this: You can put some “extension module” into your weapon which aims for you. Something like “L’aimer 2000” :). If someone kills you, instead of the usual kill-message “was killed by …” something like “Petameta cowardly used his lvl 10 L’aimer 2000 to kill ze Machine” appears. Also, the aimbot-module should be clearly visible on the players weapon.

[Wils]

what happened to that post from that cheater…what kind of forum is this with people erasing what other people said. That’s not cool. Everyone can say what they want about this thread, cheater or no cheater.

This just isn’t true - people who claim to be a cheater are not welcome on these forums, regardless of whether they’re doing it just to troll, or actually do cheat on a regular basis.

[sniser]

This just isn’t true - people who claim to be a cheater are not welcome on these forums, regardless of whether they’re doing it just to troll, or actually do cheat on a regular basis.

Hey, it’s your forum… but that doesn’t seem very clever to me. Know your enemy. Really, we (well, not me :P) are talking about cheats this and cheats that so damn often, make all kinds of lousy jokes about cheaters all the time… (I mean, the jokes are cheap, not because they are about cheaters… it’s like fart jokes really… “I bet [cheater] does [something negative]” “ROFL” “LOLOL” “gg” “n1”) don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending cheaters in any way (I know some people will flame me anway), but I’d genuinely be interested why someone cheats. I don’t believe in the “small dick theory”, that’s just as childish as cheating is. Either we stop ranting about cheaters, or we communicate. What is happening right now is half-assed. After all, it’s a social problem. So there needs to a social solution. Even John Carmack said, and he should know, that there is NO WAY EVER you can prohibit cheating 100% in multiplayer. Not now, not in 1000 years. The only thing you can do is lock down the regular players more and more, and you’ll still have cheats. So hey, it might not be sooo crazy to try and communicate instead of just slinging insults and updating PB. It’s the only thing that makes sense in the long run

But I guess some people have invested so much energy into it that they would rather die than to admit to themselves that it’s just a huge waste of time, but I had to try anway

[Kendle]

… don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending cheaters in any way, but I’d genuinely be interested why someone cheats. … Either we stop ranting about cheaters, or we communicate. What is happening right now is half-assed. After all, it’s a social problem. So there needs to a social solution. So hey, it might not be sooo crazy to try and communicate instead of just slinging insults and updating PB. It’s the only thing that makes sense in the long run

I can’t say I’d agree with that. I can’t see how “legitimising” cheating or making it more “socially acceptable” is going to reduce the number of cheats.

I feel I know perfectly well why these people cheat (they lack skill and haven’t the patience or enthusiasm to practise to get better), and I’ve no desire to make them feel in any way, shape or form even remotely better about themselves and what they do.

I’d have thought the way to reduce cheating would be to make it harder for these people to cheat in the first place. PB does that to a certain extent, but we can all make a contribution to the cause as well by making sure these people feel as low, dirty and unwelcome as possible.

[Computertech]

Cheaters is a bit of a different breed. I have come across quite a few and even talked to a few, including in forums. I find that most cheaters arn’t ppl that can’t play, but the opposite, they CAN play well. The aimbot just makes them own. Their intelligence is usually higher than most ppl. And are usually bored, it gives them a “new” way to play the game.
Yes, there are a few that can’t play and use it to help themselves, and a few that do it for revenge, and yet a few to just cause chaos. But most really are different.
The real way to stop them is that all these cheats work on the exact same principle for years now, usually opengl32.dll. It adds a second opengl32.dll so now two are running. Stopping the second one from running automatically stops the cheat. The only trick is how.