[quote=“TheStrangerous;c-226098”]You know what’s missing? DB’s global stats.
Why not let public know them, especially on the official website, regarding things like most played mercs/weapons/maps etc.?[/quote]
Aye. Echo stats should be available to see for everyone.
[quote=“watsyurdeal;c-225895”][quote=“Dawnlazy;c-225842”]
Redeye is broken by design. Blocking the enemy’s vision, being able to see through the smoke AND having weapons that can @$!# you up at any range is just dumb. Especially the Grandeur, it’s the most OP weapon in the game along with bolt-action snipers and basically transforms people into spinbot turrets on wheels. It’s not even the same kind of OP as Thunder, as his is merely a case of excess; simply nerfing some of his stats would suffice.[/quote]
Just because it kills you doesn’t make it broken.
Red Eye is good, but his smoke does not block enemy fire, his goggles only spot while active and a direct line of sight of the enemy, and the smoke nade hinders his team as much as the enemy. The Grandeur can kill in 2 headshots to most mercs, 1 to Sparks and Aura, and 3 bodyshots to 120 hp mercs like Skyhammer. If your argument is maybe it could be toned down abit, sure, give it a sight and better accuracy buffs, and I’d happily take a hit to it’s headshot damage and give it some fall off. It’s really not a sniper rifle anyhow, it’s a battle rifle first and foremost.
That, and the fact you called Snipers op, is also pretty laughable. Again, just because it kills you it doesn’t make it op or broken, op is basically reserved for stuff that is better in every way than any of the options available, aka pre nerf Fragger, and broken is when it pretty much stops the game from progressing or is by design impossible to balance, nothing really comes to my mind in that regard.
[/quote]
My issue with Grandpa Redeye is that his smokes seems comparatively inefficient when considering Stoker’s incendiaries. Sure, smokes can block out LoS much better, and paired with his googles, this does make for a nice combo, but Stokes can lock down an area from Auras, Sparks, and possibly Proxies, and still damage other mercs enough to soften them up for your teammates, or even denying them any access to a certain point.
I’ve seen its most effective uses on the secondary Barriers generator on Underground, denying the Defenders to camp on the balcony on Chapel, first objective and midway through on the Indian balcony as well. My favourite spot is on the first objective on Terminal, where almost every flank routes can be molly’d. An argument can be made that Proxy’s mine are far more effective at denying access, since it deals instant damagae, has no duration, and is hidden.
Why would you ever base a tier list off of how bad players perform with them?[/quote]
Mercenaries should be balanced according to the competitive standards and meta, I agree, however if newbies performance is taken out of consideration, the game’s skill curve would be waay to sharp for community growth. Thankfully, Dirty Bomb has enough beginner and professional mercs as far as I can see.
Can’t say anything about Fragger, never really liked him personally. His frags have so little impact compared to a quick salvo from Nader, and the cooldown feels so long. Then again, I’ve only played him for under an hour.
[quote=“Eox;c-225782”]I don’t agree with that list at all.
Anyway, like any tier list, better take this with a grain of salt. Skill means much more than a simple ranking.[/quote]
Is it worrying that all the mercs that I’ve bought fall under the 3rd worst?
[quote=“AlbinMatt;c-226185”][quote=“Eox;c-225782”]I don’t agree with that list at all.
Anyway, like any tier list, better take this with a grain of salt. Skill means much more than a simple ranking.[/quote]
Is it worrying that all the mercs that I’ve bought fall under the 3rd worst?[/quote]
Don’t worry about this. It’s mostly competition related stuff. In pubs, you can clearly do good with any of the mercs in the so called tier 3 and 2, if not better.
However if you bought Phantom, you probably need to re-evaluate your life choices. :]
Fragger’s grenades are very high impact and valuable, simple due to the unrestricted cook time. Although Nader’s grenades are also high impact, they are in a different way. Fragger grenades often grant a guaranteed entry frag when making a push, as you are able go hug a corner and peek out with a grenade that only has 0.2 seconds left in it’s fuse - basically un-dodgable.
[quote=“Eox;c-226199”][quote=“AlbinMatt;c-226185”][quote=“Eox;c-225782”]I don’t agree with that list at all.
Anyway, like any tier list, better take this with a grain of salt. Skill means much more than a simple ranking.[/quote]
Is it worrying that all the mercs that I’ve bought fall under the 3rd worst?[/quote]
Don’t worry about this. It’s mostly competition related stuff. In pubs, you can clearly do good with any of the mercs in the so called tier 3 and 2, if not better.
However if you bought Phantom, you probably need to re-evaluate your life choices. :][/quote]
I’m never going to touch that budget Dadpool unless there’s seven proxies on the enemy team.
[quote=“Cam2g;c-226201”]@AlbinMatt
Fragger’s grenades are very high impact and valuable, simple due to the unrestricted cook time. Although Nader’s grenades are also high impact, they are in a different way. Fragger grenades often grant a guaranteed entry frag when making a push, as you are able go hug a corner and peek out with a grenade that only has 0.2 seconds left in it’s fuse - basically un-dodgable.[/quote]
Yeah, I kinda forgot that Nader has a fuse on her rounds, and I like how Fragger can communicate how cooked his grenades are by the hand gestures. Very clear even for newbies. Still, I always felt trapped in corridors because he is so slow, and he’s really glutinous with medics. I was playing Phoenix the other day, and had to support two Fraggers pushing. They drained so much of Phoenix’s pulse, yet barely get healed even at max charge.
@AlbinMatt Phoenix max charge is 100hp! even more with potent packs!
on pubs, double fragger + phoenix going at it
together is a very strong and versatile team, especially on offense
Why would you ever base a tier list off of how bad players perform with them?[/quote]
Because even worst possible merc with aimbot (perfect aiming skill) would kill everything in sight regardless of any lists[/quote]
Would you like to explain why a tier list should be based on anything other than the highest level of human play, as that is where the mercs will be played to their highest current potential?
This is why Sawbonez is picked over Phoenix in competitive play. Both because the packs are able to heal from 1 to max hp, but also because you have multiple packs, rather than only 1 pulse.
Additionally, Sawbonez is able to leave packs lying around for your teammates to fall back on, allowing him to take part in firefights and not have to stop to heal teammates. Phoenix, however, is forced you cease fire and stand around for 1-2 seconds to pulse.
[quote=“Szakalot;c-226210”]@AlbinMatt Phoenix max charge is 100hp! even more with potent packs!
on pubs, double fragger + phoenix going at it
together is a very strong and versatile team, especially on offense[/quote]
I have recently gotten the CR81 Bronze Woodland on Phoenix, which has Potent Packs, Healing Reach, and something else not too important, and yeah I can now top up Fragger very well, and even a Rhino at one point. I hate the caramel and peppermint on Phoenix though, just clashes terribly with his baby blue surgical mask.
This is why Sawbonez is picked over Phoenix in competitive play. Both because the packs are able to heal from 1 to max hp, but also because you have multiple packs, rather than only 1 pulse.
Additionally, Sawbonez is able to leave packs lying around for your teammates to fall back on, allowing him to take part in firefights and not have to stop to heal teammates. Phoenix, however, is forced you cease fire and stand around for 1-2 seconds to pulse.[/quote]
Ho much does each pack heal anyway? I always thought he was a constant pick for competitive for his larger health pool and strong firearms. Should I unlock him at some point?
This is why Sawbonez is picked over Phoenix in competitive play. Both because the packs are able to heal from 1 to max hp, but also because you have multiple packs, rather than only 1 pulse.
Additionally, Sawbonez is able to leave packs lying around for your teammates to fall back on, allowing him to take part in firefights and not have to stop to heal teammates. Phoenix, however, is forced you cease fire and stand around for 1-2 seconds to pulse.[/quote]
Ho much does each pack heal anyway? I always thought he was a constant pick for competitive for his larger health pool and strong firearms. Should I unlock him at some point?[/quote]
his pack will heal until youre on full health i think, but cancels when gets damaged.
half the speed if used by medics
This is why Sawbonez is picked over Phoenix in competitive play. Both because the packs are able to heal from 1 to max hp, but also because you have multiple packs, rather than only 1 pulse.
Additionally, Sawbonez is able to leave packs lying around for your teammates to fall back on, allowing him to take part in firefights and not have to stop to heal teammates. Phoenix, however, is forced you cease fire and stand around for 1-2 seconds to pulse.[/quote]
Ho much does each pack heal anyway? I always thought he was a constant pick for competitive for his larger health pool and strong firearms. Should I unlock him at some point?[/quote]
his pack will heal until youre on full health i think, but cancels when gets damaged.
half the speed if used by medics[/quote]
Wow.If this is true, than that would explain his viability. Still don’t they regenerate your health gradually as oppose to Phoenix’s instant pulse? Also, another thing I’m not keen on is Sawbz limited Medpacks (3+1 with Extra Supplies) while Phoenix’s healing capability/pulse is virtually infinite so long as all teammates are within range. Then again if you have 4 teammates crowding a Phoenix, you’re going to get wiped out by a frag rather easily.
@AlbinMatt sawbonez medpack heaing rate is very fast, same as aura station i think (40hp/sec) its not fast enough to use under fire, but fragger will take cover and reload while getting your medpack
yes sawbonez has limited packs, but they regenerate relatively quickly, you cant spam them around, but careful use will keep your fragger alive.
medpack healing rate on self/other medics is 1/3 speed i think,so ~16hp/sec; somewhere around that
This is why Sawbonez is picked over Phoenix in competitive play. Both because the packs are able to heal from 1 to max hp, but also because you have multiple packs, rather than only 1 pulse.
Additionally, Sawbonez is able to leave packs lying around for your teammates to fall back on, allowing him to take part in firefights and not have to stop to heal teammates. Phoenix, however, is forced you cease fire and stand around for 1-2 seconds to pulse.[/quote]
Cam… if you have a good Phoenix, or If you just use the right Phoenix cards, it’s a different story. Competitive play? Sure, more power to the Saw, but it doesn’t change that Sawbonez’ healing power when POCKETING in Competitive play is why he’s so beastly. You rarely see a team of two sawbonez in PUGs for a reason.
With Phoenix, You can INSTANTLY heal BOTH Fraggers with that “one pulse” versus “two medpacks” (120 hp with potent packs) IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIREFIGHT. Sawbonez simply can’t.
With 1.2 seconds of charge (this is FULL CHARGE) and perfect positioning, not two seconds, (with extra supplies) you’re only pegged with an 8 second cooldown. Why is that familiar? Because it’s the exact freaking same cooldown as a default sawbonez pack!
@Szakalot Aura healing speed on her station is ten a second from my memory. Also, don’t forget Sawbonez has a direct hit bonus that our buddy Phoenix doesn’t. 20 instant hp (least… it used to be, hope it still is) on a direct hit means he has a 60 healing in one second plop.
When Sawbonez stops shining and another limit:
[spoiler]The moment even a good Sawbonez has to pocket two players that are constantly in the thick of things, his healing prowess is diminished. Only careful communication and stepping in and out of firefights allows his healing and the people he’s healing to really shine. This is why he is so much better on pugs as a pocket medic, because communication is so high. Note though, this still requires them to step out of combat. Not easily done all the time.[/spoiler]
My thoughts/situations:
[spoiler]I’ve played with both Sawbonez and Phoenix in competitive level play, and If I’m asked to play Field Medic, Phoenix is a definite pick in my lineup. If I’m asked to pocket, I’ll bring Sawbonez for sure, but it really depends on what I’m playing. Only in PUGS does Sawbonez shine, if Sawbonez healed even 60% of the rate his packs do to his teammates, I’d pick him much more often, but his lower healing factor to himself, means even though he has ten extra hp, he doesn’t have the same aggressive feel.[/spoiler]
If they were to add into Sawbonez’ packs, that he gains healing from them no matter what for 2 seconds or something, then that’d be cool. I’d pick him over Phoenix more often. He gains 30-50 health minimum with a pack then before bullets kill stop the healing.
EDIT: LOL, I SAID 10HP/SECOND FOR AURA. WTF AM I SMOKING!?
I highly recommend you actually study weapon balance in other FPS’ a lot more, because it’s clear you haven’t.
I challenge you to find one sport or game where the rules and balance are identical for all levels of play. Hint: You can’t. Professional play always has more rules, more restrictions, stricter enforcement, and less players than the respective lower levels of play. Whether you’re talking about football or baseball or Starcraft or even DB, the rules and balance are always different at the top level.
Completely unrelated to the entire discussion, but thanks, I get the point.
But this really takes the cake.
The implication of this statement literally makes me quit this discussion. You’re right; if I can’t aim, thank god the Grandeur has homing ammo that hits every time.
I’m sure you do just fine in competitive, but seriously, you can’t balance pubs after competitive. All damage will feel incredibly soft until your accuracy is near or over 40% with automatic weapons (since damage is reduced/levelled out for pros with strong aim), shotguns will only be effective with near 100% accuracy (anything less wouldn’t deal enough damage), and only headshots with Sniper rifles will be effective enough to get consistent kills. New players will never stick with the game and experienced players that hate Ranked will quit. You will literally kill DB.
@Xenithos lol 10hp/sec, seriously?
Self-regen of any merc is at 6hp/sec i think.
People can take fire from 1/2 opponents on the station, do you really think it happens at 10hp a sec. It used to be 40hp/sec some time ago. I do no think it was changed. Just go to a station one day, in 3 sec you’re at full health, im sure.
@bgyoshi
again - what balance is there to be done? Weapon/Merc balance is overall very good on pubs - because personal skill is 95% of your success. I can pick any merc and rek-keke most minlvl servers, and there are many players who are a lot better. What does balance matter in this context? Also in the context of the humongous amount of spam, splashdamage weapons and one-hit-kill abilities?
Except for annoying Thunder (who already isn’t nearly as annoying, on pubs), balance is fine. No merc really stands out. PLAYERS stand out. In this context (balance is fine on pubs), small adjustments here and there to make it more fair at high lvl play is the way to go. Moreover, average skill lvl in DB will only increase in time, due to the fanboy effect.
I’m pretty sure TTK is not that drastically different. Yes, high lvl players have a lot better aim, but they also dodge a lot better. Low skill newbies will just stand there and shoot at each other, going down fairly quickly as well.