A balanced view: the roles required and why K/D is important in Brink.

(iezza) #61

[QUOTE=Ero-Sennin;331987]Cry me a river, I was making a joke!!! :rolleyes: A way to say if K/D is not your Holy Grail quest and reason to pat yourself on the back and having all your self-esteem based on VIRTUAL fps gaming , maybe Brink would be your game. We had that K/D ratio on ETQW, and it didnt bothered me at all.

I brought Combat Arms because IT IS FILLED with statpaddlers and aimboter who are looking for the best K/D ever. There is so many cheaters in that game its unbelievable. Ive quit that game when i realized that we were only 4 guys not hacking the game on almost 24 players on the game we were. Now do you see my point of making a joke outta this?

And oh! did i mentioned that ive played Beta Beach RTCW? I dont know how old you are but maybe you havent played it, but I did. Competed on Wolf: ET and ETQW…

Filthy beast token for not laughing at my combat arms joke …

No you deserve a brickwall of it!!! :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir: :stroggtapir:

no sense of humor … sheesshhh[/QUOTE]

TAAAAPIRS! YAYZ!

CA is the wors game ever, opearation blackout is slightly better, but brink pwns them all .

(Shadowcat) #62

It is impossible to prove something as non existent. Burden of proof lies on those trying to say something works. I have cited the only Brink tourny i know of atm, and i dont see your strategy there among the top Brink clans as of now. If your strategy works so well, then the burden is on you to find proof, not on me to prove its not there.

My winning strategy is to have a peanut butter sandwich in your left hand at all times. Unless you can find an example of it being used and losing, you cant prove me wrong.

(fearlessfox) #63

No, you’ve not proven your point. There are no examples on that site of teams using the tactics I mention and losing to teams simply rushing things in a coordinated manner. None at all.

You made a false claim.

(Shadowcat) #64

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;332578]No, you’ve not proven your point. There are no examples on that site of teams using the tactics I mention and losing to teams simply rushing things in a coordinated manner. None at all.

You made a false claim.[/QUOTE]

Ok, so how about a new claim. K/D doesnt matter, the team with a higher W/L is better. W/L is the only stat that matters to prove if a strategy is effective or not.

(zenstar) #65

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;332569]This is the same thing as being a grammar nazi for the sake of sounding smarter. We all know what I meant.

Funny, this is what you’re doing IMO. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s never personal. <3[/QUOTE]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero%E2%80%93sum_game
That is what I meant by zero sum game. It’s perfectly apt and describes KDR between 2 teams.
I don’t know how else to express it without posting a wall of text to explain it.
We’ve all got the internet to be able to look things up.

Anyway. I’m not getting involved with the actual debate here anymore. :smiley:

(fearlessfox) #66

And higher W/L will be achieved by teams who consider the value of K/D from an objective perspective.

(Shadowcat) #67

If you’re going to make this direct a claim claim, then the burden of proof lies with you.

Show me clear cut examples where a team using similar tactics to those I suggest in a clearly efficient and well organised way lose out to a team that bum rushes the OBJ together over and over.

I have yet to see proof, only theory crafting. In my experience, it often takes people willing to risk deaths to get the job done, often at huge expense to K/D

(fearlessfox) #68

[QUOTE=zenstar;332585]
That is what I meant by zero sum game. [/QUOTE]

I understand what ZS means, I wasn’t contesting that. the point I was contesting is that you were getting semantic about the fact that gamers have been using the words ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ for years to describe either a kill heavy or loss heavy ratio. Regardless of the pedantic truth, this is the colloquial use.

Anyway…

If two teams go up against each other and both use the tactics mentioned in the OP then zero sum comes into play.

If one team uses more considered tactics for designated roles and a more balanced team against another that simply rushes points and lets anyone switch when the OBJ needs capping then the first team will win almost every time.

I stand by this claim, and, as I said, I’d be willing to put it to the test if I could.

Taking calculated risk =/= bum rushing a point at the expense of your position in the team.

Honest question dude, do you have much personal in-game experience with above pub level comp play?

I’ve also said numerous times I’m willing to offer proof, but the state of Brink currently isn’t active enough for me to be able to organise this. Perhaps if the DLC and future fixes draw more crowds we’ll be able to test these things in an adequate environment.

(Oschino1907) #69

[QUOTE=zenstar;332585]

Anyway. I’m not getting involved with the actual debate here anymore. :D[/QUOTE]

Thats the SMARTEST thing you have said all thread!

Lol most people here that know any better know its not even worth trying to debate with FearlessFox, it will just end up and never ending battle repeating your points for days only to have nothing but personal opinions for comebacks or “selective” responses. Hahahaha one of my best friends is like that, we try to never debate anymore as it always ends up bad. Logic never wins this type of battle :smiley:

(Shadowcat) #70

So i show proof of a high-end tournament where your strategy doesnt exist, and you throw burden of proof at me and treat it as if it completely debunks my argument.

I throw burden of proof at your claims lacking any citation, and you simply say “I stand by this claim, and, as I said, I’d be willing to put it to the test if I could.” which basically boils down to ‘I know I’m right’

A debate can no longer be achieved.

(zenstar) #71

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;332591]I understand what ZS means, I wasn’t contesting that. the point I was contesting is that you were getting semantic about the fact that gamers have been using the words ‘positive’ and ‘negative’ for years to describe either a kill heavy or loss heavy ratio. Regardless of the pedantic truth, this is the colloquial use.

Anyway…

If two teams go up against each other and both use the tactics mentioned in the OP then zero sum comes into play.

If one team uses more considered tactics for designated roles and a more balanced team against another that simply rushes points and lets anyone switch when the OBJ needs capping then the first team will win almost every time.

I stand by this claim, and, as I said, I’d be willing to put it to the test if I could.[/QUOTE]
I personally did not know that >1 meant negative. I don’t follow KDR at all and haven’t played many games where KDR is important (and I’ve never cared about discussing it when it was). You’ll notice that when it was explained to me I accepted the definition. You should have just come right out and said that.

And zero sum always comes into play when talking KDR from the point of view of 2 teams. It doesn’t matter what tactics are used the very nature of how the score is tallied is a zero sum.

(zenstar) #72

[QUOTE=Oschino1907;332593]Thats the SMARTEST thing you have said all thread!

Lol most people here that know any better know its not even worth trying to debate with FearlessFox, it will just end up and never ending battle repeating your points for days only to have nothing but personal opinions for comebacks or “selective” responses. Hahahaha one of my best friends is like that, we try to never debate anymore as it always ends up bad. Logic never wins this type of battle :D[/QUOTE]
:smiley:
As long as a debate never gets personal they are always fun.

Hey! someone called me smart! points at Oschino :tongue:

(fearlessfox) #73

I meant that it comes into play as a defining factor when the teams are of equal skill.

While it’s always in play, when a team is simply steam rolling another, even though it is zero sum working out it’s not ‘push and pull’ it’s simply stomping something to death.

That was my turn being unclear. My bad. :stuck_out_tongue:

(fearlessfox) #74

No, you told me that there were examples in the tournament of teams ignoring this strategy rolling over teams who embraced similar ideas. This doesn’t exist on the site you linked to so you made a false claim.

I can quote the exact part that says this if you like.

[QUOTE=Shadowcat;332599]
I throw burden of proof at your claims lacking any citation, and you simply say “I stand by this claim, and, as I said, I’d be willing to put it to the test if I could.” which basically boils down to ‘I know I’m right’

A debate can no longer be achieved.[/QUOTE]

How can I prove it then? My point is that I can’t organise games to show this in the context of Brink as there simply aren’t enough players in my timezone of /any/ level of ability to so so efficiently.

I’m more than willing to put it to the test if you can think of a way to do so.

Remember, I’m on ps3 where it’s been a ghost town for weeks. :confused:

(Oschino1907) #75

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;332605]

How can I prove it then? My point is that I can’t organise games to show this in the context of Brink as there simply aren’t enough players in my timezone of /any/ level of ability to so so efficiently.

I’m more than willing to put it to the test if you can think of a way to do so.

Remember, I’m on ps3 where it’s been a ghost town for weeks. :/[/QUOTE]

All you have is excuses left and right all day every day. Lol I have been getting request from plenty of UK players and play with them on a daily basis now. I love when they join up with me and all the others and we get a few hours straight of hardly any lag and more then half full (often totally full) matches.
Especially when afterwards they write to say how good a night it was teaming up with good team players and explaining how they cant stand people who claim its impossible to find matches with people when all it takes it a little effort and being open to others.
Now yes there have been more dead times them normal as of late but not enough to keep away times when our whole match in full and freinds cant join or must join other team cause fireteam is full of friends. Besides with the BallsPartyOf2 Chats its almost impossible to not find people to play with who are the same rank or close.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES! And prove your point rather then just telling us your personal opinion.

(GingThu) #76

Fox, what is the point of this thread? I’m sorry i think I’ve missed it, something about K/D ratio being important?

I don’t think people debate to much, as to whether or not getting kills is important, in fact EVERY competitive FPS is centered around kills and how to go about getting them. But I think that having a K/D displayed on the stats site would be the wrong focus that a game like brink wants. Kills are part of the game, but i think its more important to recognize team work.

That is what this is all boiling down to right? Having K/D on the stat site? Because if that has nothing to do with this topic then i guess the whole point your trying to make is getting kills is important? and…thats it? I’ll agree with that. Is it more important than team work? I don’t think so…but thats just me.

Seriously when threads get this long with 1 or 2 people going back and forth over silly arguments it makes me sad the community has nothing better to do…like play the game…

(tokamak) #77

One thing I do know is that this horse’s ratio is 0/1

(fearlessfox) #78

Well, if you’d read the OP you’d understand that, or are you just being facetious to take the piss? :confused:

My point is that killing the other team is just as important as taking the objective and that a healthy K/D in the same breath as OBJ awareness = the best way you can play Brink.

It might seem obvious, but this thread was made to counter the /numerous/ posts I’ve read that assert the idea that somehow K/D has no bearing and simply throwing yourself at objectives over and over again without care for your survival is the best way to play Brink.

And I would be playing Brink, if there were anyone in my timezone playing Brink regularly on the PSN. ;_;