A balanced view: the roles required and why K/D is important in Brink.


(fearlessfox) #1

DISCLAIMER (I hate having to do this): this thread is NOT a call for K/D to be shown, it’s a call for players to recognise the value of K/D even if it’s hidden. Cheers!

Brink is an OBJ based game, and that’s its focus and main selling point to many of its players. Tired of “team” based FPSs full of lone wolf whoring and Rambo reenactments, many have followed/migrated to Brink for the simply reason that its set up allows for some of the most organic team based experiences in gaming history. However, while public games can be random and exciting frenzies of organic team brilliance, they can also be boiling pots of personal frustration and game-ruining annoyance.

The best way to play Brink is for your team to know how to live up to its namesake.

Let’s start from the beginning…

There’s no denying that OBJ focus is key, and should always be primary, but how do we manage to take OBJs efficiently and cleanly? Well, we make sure the enemy isn’t allowed to stop us. IE: we shoot them, a lot, in the face if preferable.

Now, a team that is moving forward and clearing rooms with players switching to a needed class when they see an OBJ appear and no-one else taking the initiative /can/ be a successful team, but this alone won’t always be enough to ensure they’re an /efficient/ team.

A team that switches up too often can be just as detrimental as a team full of K/D whores.

The point is this: Brink is not about K/D and Brink is not about OBJs… Brink is about BALANCE

Wait, didn’t I write earlier that OBJ should always be Primary? Good spot. I also highlighted the fact that OBJs can be taken much more efficiently if the enemy is made dead and kept that ways as often as possible.

To play Brink with the upmost efficiency, there are certain roles that require fulfilling:

The Killers - those who focus on clearing areas and keeping them clear while others support and cap OBJs. Of course, everyone will be killing all the time, but by shifting the brunt of the focus to a couple of delegated players you will /always/ have someone holding the area down while the main body of your team can do their jobs without losing too much focus.

Soldiers suit this role perfectly with their AoE focus and Grenade spam potential.

The Supporters - those who focus on stocking ammo, keeping everyone buffed, healing/reviving, setting up perimeters, etc… this is /NOT/ a lesser position, and shouldn’t be viewed as less glamorous or important. A player who can efficiently support their team knowing who to delegate their last pip to is just as important as the soldier wracking up kills.

Medics and Engineers build the brunt here keeping the core of the team at full strength, while an operative or two works the fringes sending back tactical intel.

The OBJ Takers - these guys are the ones who flit and flirt between classes to get s*it done! A soldier who’s part of the Killer bracket shouldn’t stop killing when the room is clear to place a charge, they should ensure the are is held so /these/ guys can get in there and take the OBJ.

A team who delegates in this way will stomp all over a team who is switching it up on the fly. It’s just fact that a well oiled machine runs smoother, and if you know your roles and stick to it your team is going to benefit.

The fact that command posts exist for people to switch up on the fly should not be a reason for everyone to be doing so. Let’s take a look at what I consider my ideal team set up:

The most important thing to remember is that Brink is supposed to be fun, so let everyone have a go at everything if they want to. you might prefer being the killer on your team, but you’re going to be a much better killer if you know the other classes well, and the best way to learn them is to play them inside and out.

Also, people should have mics. And if people don’t have mics then they should still all be on the same fireteam. If I’m on a team with players without mics, I will invite them in and use my mic to keep the team informed of the situation. It’s good if you can assign a captain role to a single player, but it’s not essential.

2 Medics concentrating on healing the team.
1-2 soldiers concentrating /purely/ on killing the enemy.
1 Operative working the fringes and using the bodies to secure intel
1-2 engineers buffing things
2 players who flit between classes constantly to achieve objectives.

Now, let’s look at a scenario:

Two kill focused soldiers move into an area and start removing enemy threat, pre-buffed by their supporters who move in behind them laying down supporting fire and picking off targets. The OBJ takers hang back taking pot-shots and flitting between needed roles as people die and respawn etc…

Now, the team clear an objective and establish a perimeter. The soldiers hold back the advancing enemy as they respawn, the supporters hold them up, and the OBJ handlers rush in and do their thing. Now, say the OBJ takers get sniped by an enemy and the OBJ taking is stopped. Unless there’s seconds to go on the clock and someone can rush in and tip the game into the safety of a cut scene, then the remaining players should /not/ attempt to switch up and take the OBJ, but instead hold the area while the OBJ takers respawn and rush back in to finish their work.

What good would it be for one of the soldiers to stop killing and start laying the charge with 70% to go when the area could be overrun again and the team pushed back?

Of course, it wouldn’t be impossible, but it’s a much safer and more efficient bet to remain at your post and get your own job done.

This set up also allows the main body of the team to be strong enough for the soldiers to back of in a lull and scavenge bodies to keep their ammo count up and to supply their team. Once a wave is down and the bulk of the enemy is respawning, the supporters can switch to focusing on fire while the soldiers restock and resupply themselves and others. THIS is an example of the potential of the organic nature of Brink at its best, and how roles can reverse with each class capable mixing it up, and NOT everyone switching just because an OBJ is ready to be taken.

So, why is K/D important? Well, surely the above would have answered it for you. The Killers with high positive K/D will be those who are helping their teams the most by ensuring the enemy are dying more often so the areas remain free for working, the operatives with high positive K/Ds will be those who know when to time their caps and when to retreat to keep the timer ticking up efficiently (it’s not always best to hunker down on the OBJ and simply hold the button capture button while you pray…), and the supporters with high K/D will be those who know when to engage the enemy directly with more focus and when to lend total support to those who are more adept at the task.

EVERYONE should be killing, but by delegating the roles in this way you’ll ensure that positive K/D remain high and that fact will mean your team is being efficient and winning with tactical skill and precision. Just because Brink gives you the option to switch it up doesn’t mean /you/ always should.

The point is not to focus on the K/D itself, but to allow the K/D to remain positive /because/ you’re working your role for the good of the team to the best of your ability.

K/D /is/ important, it’s just that a better K/D does not = a better player.

Brink is a game that focuses on OBJ, sure, but the game is an OBJ based FPS: A First Person SHOOTER. If kill more and die less your team will do better. Just remember that if you take care of your team your K/D will take care of itself.


(fearlessfox) #2

I’d just like to say that none of the above is set-in-stone absolutes. IE: The Killers don’t /have/ to be soldiers, etc…

I do stand by the fact that this set-up is the best way to play the game. Feel free to challenge that with ideas and theories of your own, and, hell, even an invite or two to put it all to the test!


(Dorian Gray) #3

All that to say “K/D is important in this game it’s just not everything.”

You’ve got issues. lol

A team can all go negative K/D and still win the match. Untill you prove that wrong K/D means nothing!


(Ero-Sennin) #4

interesting post fox, i like the way you cover the balance thing. I understand better what you meant now about the K/D. Im giving you a token of appreciation:

:stroggtapir: THE FILTHY BEAST !!!

good thread op


(Je T´aime) #5

You gonna get flamed for wanting K/D :P, i personally think it wont change anything, but a lot of people dislike the fact that game does not have k/d and the player base is now around 3000 players on PC so it can´t hurt the game more.


(fearlessfox) #6

[QUOTE=Dorian Gray;331652]All that to say “K/D is important in this game it’s just not everything.”

You’ve got issues. lol

A team can all go negative K/D and still win the match. Untill you prove that wrong K/D means nothing![/QUOTE]

If you’d read my post well you’d realise I’ve written this very thing. The analysis here is striving for maximum efficiency, and K/D is an important aspect of that.


(fearlessfox) #7

Added a disclaimer to clear this up. :penguin:


(Dorian Gray) #8

It’s really not that complicated. Team communication takes you 90% of the way. Just make sure you have a couple of classe that match the obj and then help them out. But hey, if you want to write a strategy guide, more power to ya.


(fearlessfox) #9

The beauty of Brink is that it supports even the lightest of team efforts while offering the potential for some of /the/ most efficiently built set-ups in the history of FPSs.

This analysis is simply an example of this potential.

Some of us enjoy analyzing strategy to squeeze utmost efficient from our game, if that’s not your bag then there’s no need to rag on the idea of it.


(Oschino1907) #10

K/D can be important, its not always but can be, no one argues that at all. But having KDR stats or even sharing them with everyone will not make anyone any better, just more self concious and wary making them second guess things for the sake of a good KDR. Personal KDR for yourself and no one else is fine, use it to help make yourself “better” if you think its helps but no one wants to see threads or posts gloating of KDR numbers or others talking down to others because of KDR.

Hell for me one thing no KDR helps me with is letting my friends actually try the game on my account with my characters. On almost every other game i play especially those with public KDR stats i would refuse to allow my friends to play and especially learn to play while i was online with my account. Its just their are so many variables that go into KDR including your style of play and battle tactics. Also dont forget you can get “killed” and but also can be revived or revive yourself and you are still there fighting and getting the job done without respawning. Even counting respawns would be an unstable number to measure much as there are times to do it and not to (when you have the choice). And should this guy or that guy get all the kills when it was a team effort andthey got the last bullets or what if they took them down but didnt finish them off, thats still another guy that could be revived or revive himself and get right back into battle or even promote spamming and boosting to get KDR up with friends on the other team.

Hahaha If anything a truer measure of your value to your team in terms of killing and helping defend/attack with “offensive capabilities” would be how much Damage Points you deal compared to others or Damage Points per min,match or per life (although with math you could figure out deaths). But basically just saying there are MUCH BETTER ways to go about it other then KDR and having it or making it public.


(Dorian Gray) #11

Sometimes it’s just more efficient to get yourself killed and respawn with full supplies, especially if the spawn is close to the obj.

Just sayin’, If I health buff everyone, am I more valuble to the team if I stand around with no pips to revive anyone, or am I more helpful coming back with full pips so I can revive my team when they go down?

My point is my K/D may be horrible for doing this but my team is better off.


(Dorian Gray) #12

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;331666]The beauty of Brink is that it supports even the lightest of team efforts while offering the potential for some of /the/ most efficiently built set-ups in the history of FPSs.

This analysis is simply an example of this potential.

Some of us enjoy analyzing strategy to squeeze utmost efficient from our game, if that’s not your bag then there’s no need to rag on the idea of it.[/QUOTE]

Sorry to rag on ya so bad, you’re right.


(fearlessfox) #13

[QUOTE=Dorian Gray;331671]Sometimes it’s just more efficient to get yourself killed and respawn with full supplies, especially if the spawn is close to the obj.

Just sayin’, If I health buff everyone, am I more valuble to the team if I stand around with no pips to revive anyone, or am I more helpful coming back with full pips so I can revive my team when they go down?

My point is my K/D may be horrible for doing this but my team is better off.[/QUOTE]

In a pub melee frenzy, sure, but if you’ve got a good team with mics and strong comms, then there should be no need for this kind of waste.

It’s cool, things can get heated. Best if we don’t take it personally though.


(Shadowcat) #14

Your argument that killing is important isn’t really true, even in your examples and discussions of strategy. It is often important to have a player locking down an area while faced with a lot of opponents. That involves a lot of killing, but killing isn’t ever the final goal.

In Refuel, resistance will want to have people defending the plane right before the bomb explodes or the hack finishes. They are likely going to be facing a mob of enemies as they respawn; but it doesn’t matter how many people they kill if they maintain control of the area.

For TDM and K/D focused players, killing IS the goal, not the means to an end. That is why K/D should be avoided. Players focused on it will do anything that involves more kills regardless of its importance to the mission; and avoid deaths at all costs, even when the main mission involves a high chance of dying.


(fearlessfox) #15

Correct, the final goals is /always/ the objective. Killing is a means to an end, and a way to ensure the objective can be taken.

Cheers!


(Shadowcat) #16

[QUOTE=fearlessfox;331686]Correct, the final goals is /always/ the objective. Killing is a means to an end, and a way to ensure the objective can be taken.

Cheers![/QUOTE]

Then your thread title is wrong. You don’t think that KDR is important, you think killing in general often is. A player with a high KDR isn’t necessarily useful, and a useful player will often die a lot of they stick near the objective, driving down their KDR. Anyone who has a high KDR playing security on container city is nearly guaranteed to be useless, since they most likely arent escorting the bot.

Edit: K/D is a Ratio. As a statistic, it shows how many kills you get each time you die. If you do not change your gaming habits, it can be a useful tool for assessing a player. It is generally desirable to stay alive as long as possible and kill as many opponents as you can while doing what you are supposed to.

The issue is that people DO change their habits if it is possible to find their KDR. Those players will avoid high risk objectives while doing actions that enable easy kills, even if the kills are meaningless. So showing it is a bad thing to do, it makes some players a lot less effective in a team and objective based game. And if its not visible, whats the point of tracking it, and how can it be deemed important as a ratio?


(jazevec) #17

fearlessfox:

There’s a a point (lenght) in a message where extra words just obscure what you’re trying to communicate. Walls of text are difficult to parse and understand. They don’t hold recipient’s attention for long.


(Mr E Unknown) #18

The bottom line is this:

[ul]
[li]it’s an FPS, so killing the enemy before they kill you = a good thing, as a general rule;[/li][li]Brink is not DM/TDM-oriented, so KDR is not a “critical” statistic as some claim - it’s merely an optional extra for those who like to track that sort of thing;[/li][li]some people bought Brink precisely because of the promise that it was objectives/team-oriented and that there was no KDR reporting (introduce KDR and you’ll lose those players); and,[/li][li]anyone (not necessarily you, fearlessfox) advocating that Brink or the stats site is somehow deficient by not reporting KDR should, quite frankly, leave Brink and go play something where KDR is important.[/li][/ul]

fearlessfox, I know your post talks about the objective being important and that you’re not explicitly advocating the reporting of KDR - but ultimately if it’s not important enough to be reported, then by definition it’s just not important, period. The rest is just academic theory. :slight_smile:


(fearlessfox) #19

No, I think K/D is important.

Please read the post again, it clarifies this.

I wrote this for people who enjoy this kind of analysis and are used to reading more than a paragraph at a time. If that’s not you then there’s no need to tell me so.

I believe SD’s reasoning for not showing K/D is to preserve the focus of team play, not because they hold little value in killing more often than you die.

Therefore I don’t agree with your point, but fairly put.


(Mr E Unknown) #20

See the first point I made (about being an FPS) - it’s not that there’s no “value” in KDR, every contribution to the team completing its objectives has “value”; but in terms of the overall “importance” within the context of playing Brink, KDR just isn’t all that important - if it was, it would be reported.

That’s what I mean by the whole discussion around the “importance” of KDR (in Brink) being essentially academic. :slight_smile: