[QUOTE=Mr E Unknown;331731]See the first point I made (about being an FPS) - it’s not that there’s no “value” in KDR, every contribution to the team completing its objectives has “value”; but in terms of the overall “importance” within the context of playing Brink, KDR just isn’t all that important - if it was, it would be reported.
That’s what I mean by the whole discussion around the “importance” of KDR (in Brink) being essentially academic. :)[/QUOTE]
And I stand by my assertion that it’s not reported because SD wanted to keep an absolute team based focus with the way Brink presents itself, and /not/ because killing more and dying less isn’t important.
It’s not important to “know” your K/D but it is important to maintain it.
Combat Arms is all about K/D and % of headshots. Its a free game made by Nexon, has a lot of gametypes, many different guns, AR, SMG, pistols, SR, armors and equipements. You get ranks by killing like a god and get more points to buy bigger cheesy guns. There is a wonderful server channel interface with tons of ****-talkers, flamers and big K/D E-peeners. And best of all, you can get the best K/D ever in the world with the TONS of cheats available for free over the internet. K/D stat paddlers, thats your best destination! did they left ? yeah? good! Now lets play Brink for what it is… i think Fox just wanted to point out that K/D is still in Brink, like it or not, and its impacts on online games. At least we can understand your point Fox, unlike many others…
There’s a a point (lenght) in a message where extra words just obscure what you’re trying to communicate. Walls of text are difficult to parse and understand. They don’t hold recipient’s attention for long.[/QUOTE]
Thats okay some of us dont have ADD.
[QUOTE=Mr E Unknown;331731] but in terms of the overall “importance” within the context of playing Brink, KDR just isn’t all that important - if it was, it would be reported.
[/QUOTE]
Just because someone tells you its good does not necessarily mean its good.
KDR is as important as all the other stuff they already have in the stats. If you think it really is less important then some of the stats they have REPORTED then im speechless.
Combat Arms is nothing like this game. Awful comparison.
You people really need to stop comparing this to Cod, Halo, and all the joke games out there.
A lot of us are from earlier titles including Splashdamages own games.
We know what teamwork is and dont need this Combat Arms lecture.
PS. Why would people who like KDs go to a game that you claim has aimbot users.
Do you think we are inferior because of our mindset.
This game has now 3000 people active per day at most. It needs all the help it can get.
Having stats that please more people and give a more accurate result on the stats page (with the other data) can only make people happy. Unless of course there is people like you who cry and think its the end of the world because some numbers might be added that dont fit your wants.
yes killing is important but i rather die 1000 times and win than kill 1000 people and lose. the way they have it set up is great it sets the support people equal if not better than kill freaks.
@llegend123: 2 main things
if the help has to come from hackers and “i die to much and haven’t killed a soul” complainers then I’ll sell the game right now
2)if people want stats tell to make their own web page that tracks stats. easy fix and every one is happy
[QUOTE=legend123;331955]Wow. Just wow at the responses :eek: :rolleyes:
Combat Arms is nothing like this game. Awful comparison.
You people really need to stop comparing this to Cod, Halo, and all the joke games out there.
A lot of us are from earlier titles including Splashdamages own games.
We know what teamwork is and dont need this Combat Arms lecture.
PS. Why would people who like KDs go to a game that you claim has aimbot users.
Do you think we are inferior because of our mindset.
This game has now 3000 people active per day at most. It needs all the help it can get.
Having stats that please more people and give a more accurate result on the stats page (with the other data) can only make people happy. Unless of course there is people like you who cry and think its the end of the world because some numbers might be added that dont fit your wants.
Im done. Its like talking to a brickwall
:armadillochase: :stroggflag:[/QUOTE]
Cry me a river, I was making a joke!!! :rolleyes: A way to say if K/D is not your Holy Grail quest and reason to pat yourself on the back and having all your self-esteem based on VIRTUAL fps gaming , maybe Brink would be your game. We had that K/D ratio on ETQW, and it didnt bothered me at all.
I brought Combat Arms because IT IS FILLED with statpaddlers and aimboter who are looking for the best K/D ever. There is so many cheaters in that game its unbelievable. Ive quit that game when i realized that we were only 4 guys not hacking the game on almost 24 players on the game we were. Now do you see my point of making a joke outta this?
And oh! did i mentioned that ive played Beta Beach RTCW? I dont know how old you are but maybe you havent played it, but I did. Competed on Wolf: ET and ETQW…
Filthy beast token for not laughing at my combat arms joke …
[QUOTE=Ero-Sennin;331987]Cry me a river, I was making a joke!!! :rolleyes: A way to say if K/D is not your Holy Grail quest and reason to pat yourself on the back and having all your self-esteem based on VIRTUAL fps gaming , maybe Brink would be your game. We had that K/D ratio on ETQW, and it didnt bothered me at all.
I brought Combat Arms because IT IS FILLED with statpaddlers and aimboter who are looking for the best K/D ever. There is so many cheaters in that game its unbelievable. Ive quit that game when i realized that we were only 4 guys not hacking the game on almost 24 players on the game we were. Now do you see my point of making a joke outta this?
And oh! did i mentioned that ive played Beta Beach RTCW? I dont know how old you are but maybe you havent played it, but I did. Competed on Wolf: ET and ETQW…
Filthy beast token for not laughing at my combat arms joke …
WHAT!!! those are tapirs? i thought it was a filthy beast smelling from miles away… Now i feel bad of all that happiness im sharing with everyone…" I dont wanna sell deathsticks. I gonna go home and rethink my life" And Obi-wan returns to his drink
You clearly didn’t read everything I wrote beyond the subset you quoted; the point I was making is that in the context of Brink, how it works and how it’s meant to be played, worrying about a KDR is not important - just play the game and KDR will take care of itself.
If, instead, you’re going to keep carrying on about how “important” KDR is then you’re playing the wrong game.
A minor thing:
Your assumption that you have to maintain a high K/D ratio in some roles to keep team efficiency is not 100% correct.
The whole point of the game is to complete objectives for your team or make sure your team can complete the objective while you keep them safe / alive. You don’t need a high K/D ratio for this.
If you can scare the enemy back without killing them then you are achieving your goals. In fact if you scare the enemy back and then chase them to get the kill you could be opening your team up to a flanking action as you move too far out to maintain effective protection.
Generally a high K/D ratio means you’re on the map more in the place you need to be. This is, of course, ignoring stat padding where you can maintain a high K/D ratio without helping your team at all.
Also notice that K/D ratio is only useful in cerain roles and sometimes only in certain parts of a map and that it is not a stat that needs to be worked towards. Sometimes it’s more adventageous to sacrifice your K/D to keep a medic from getting to the escort.
K/D ratio reporting is, however, not that useful. The only useful thing it could be for is seeing how you’re improving over time. In that case the only thing you need to see is your personal K/D for the last round, but even this isn’t required as the XP gain pretty much gives you an overall of how you’re doing. Generally if you’re earning good XP then you’re doing things right.
Don’t overestimate the importance of maintaining a high K/D. It’s only important for certain roles, sometimes. (But as you say: it is still important sometimes).
All he is claiming is that if you are doing whats good for your team anyway, getting as many kills as possible is good; dying as little as possible is good; so getting your K/D high comes as a result and is good.
But K/D is just a ratio, a number. The other two are concepts. Just because the two concepts lead to a number being high doesn’t mean the number itself is important. Numbers are nothing but an indicator, and when the indicator can cause people to change their habits to something worse, its a bad indicator.
I stand by my assertion that K/D means nothing in a game where a team of people can all go negative and still win.
Let’s use delivering the briefcase as an example. A team can spend 5 min pushing to deliver the case, dying over and over again maybe not even getting any kills in the process. But then in the last minute they make a big push together and take out the other team ONE TIME giving themselves enough time to deliver the case. Now they could all have horrible K/Ds from pushing and getting killed over and over. The defending team could all be 50-5… It doesn’t matter what the K/Ds are, it matters who won the game.
Was it pretty? NO
Was it efficient? NO
Did the team with the good K/Ds win? NO
So addressing the title of the thread-" why K/D is important in Brink."
Examples like the one I gave should show that “When it comes to winning in Brink, K/D does not matter.”
[quote=Dorian Gray;331652]All that to say “K/D is important in this game it’s just not everything.”
You’ve got issues. lol
A team can all go negative K/D and still win the match. Untill you prove that wrong K/D means nothing![/quote]
[quote=Dorian Gray;332375]I stand by my assertion that K/D means nothing in a game where a team of people can all go negative and still win.
Let’s use delivering the briefcase as an example. A team can spend 5 min pushing to deliver the case, dying over and over again maybe not even getting any kills in the process. But then in the last minute they make a big push together and take out the other team ONE TIME giving themselves enough time to deliver the case. Now they could all have horrible K/Ds from pushing and getting killed over and over. The defending team could all be 50-5… It doesn’t matter what the K/Ds are, it matters who won the game.
Was it pretty? NO
Was it efficient? NO
Did the team with the good K/Ds win? NO
So addressing the title of the thread-" why K/D is important in Brink."
Examples like the one I gave should show that “When it comes to winning in Brink, K/D does not matter.”[/quote]
You keep claiming an entire team can go negative and win, but without published K/DRs, you can’t prove that theory.
Logic says that if you keep dying and the enemy keeps surviving, they will stop you from completing an objective.
[QUOTE=Dorian Gray;332375]I stand by my assertion that K/D means nothing in a game where a team of people can all go negative and still win.
Let’s use delivering the briefcase as an example. A team can spend 5 min pushing to deliver the case, dying over and over again maybe not even getting any kills in the process. But then in the last minute they make a big push together and take out the other team ONE TIME giving themselves enough time to deliver the case. Now they could all have horrible K/Ds from pushing and getting killed over and over. The defending team could all be 50-5… It doesn’t matter what the K/Ds are, it matters who won the game.
Was it pretty? NO
Was it efficient? NO
Did the team with the good K/Ds win? NO
So addressing the title of the thread-" why K/D is important in Brink."
Examples like the one I gave should show that “When it comes to winning in Brink, K/D does not matter.”[/QUOTE]
This is not quite true. If it were a stopwatch game and both sides won the attack then it is likely that the team with the higher K/D would have completed things faster (not a certainty however as some sneaky tactics could have been used).
K/D is a part of the game. It’s just not a very important part. Staying alive helps you be effective on the field for longer periods of time. Killing helps control the enemy. However, without teamwork it’s still useless.
It’d be difficult to say exactly how important it is because it depends on the team and the individual’s role.
K/D stat reporting is far less important however. There are very few reasons why it should be reported and even then there are no reasons I can think of, other than bragging, why it should be public. I could be wrong but I have yet to see an argument good enough to convince me.
[QUOTE=Frankie Godskin;332410]You keep claiming an entire team can go negative and win, but without published K/DRs, you can’t prove that theory.
Logic says that if you keep dying and the enemy keeps surviving, they will stop you from completing an objective.[/QUOTE]
I 'm speaking from experience, either you believe me or you don’t. I’ve seen plenty of teams that have been getting their buts kicked turn around and win the game.
I’ve also played plenty of objective games that DO show K/D, and it’s always been a fact that the team with the best K/Ds don’t always ‘win’ the game.
I think you’re pretty thick headed to need proof of these situations, I just thought stuff like this was common knowledge to gamers?
[QUOTE=Dorian Gray;332435]I 'm speaking from experience, either you believe me or you don’t. I’ve seen plenty of teams that have been getting their buts kicked turn around and win the game.
I’ve also played plenty of objective games that DO show K/D, and it’s always been a fact that the team with the best K/Ds don’t always ‘win’ the game.
I think you’re pretty thick headed to need proof of these situations, I just thought stuff like this was common knowledge to gamers?[/QUOTE]
Only the ones that don’t focus on KDR =P
i know several people who focus on nothing but KDR in other games, and if they lose will ALWAYS blame it on their team, because they are at the top of the scoreboard, so they clearly were the most help, even if they weren’t paying attention to the objective.
Even The OP’s idea of designated killers and supporters doesn’t work. If you are still alive when the rest of your team dies, and are doing nothing to further the objective while you wait for them, you are useless for that time anyway. You might as well have been fighting by their side, died, and respawned with them.
I have seen people suicide just so they can spawn with the rest of their team, a concentrated push is that important.
Take escort missions for example, having someone at the back picking off targets can be a good thing, but if you refuse to step forward to help escort because you are a designated killer, you aren’t doing everything you can to help the team. Pick people off, but when your team starts dwindling, you’re better off stepping forward to help escort. If youre still in the back when everyone dies and the objective stops moving, youre as good as dead. Anyone you kill in this time will just respawn anyway, so you aren’t even hurting the defense.
Heck, with the way supply pips work in this game, sometimes a tactical respawn can be an improvement just from refilling them. And since thats the case, killing an opponent when your team isnt pushing could easily just refill his supply meter and make him harder to kill when it matters. In this case, the best option is to take a death over a kill, completely counter-intuitive to KDR.
It works perfectly, I can assure you it’s been tried and tested.
Holding an area securely while the OBJ is capped will always be a greater tactic than everyone rushing the OBJ and hoping. For players who seem so defiant in their defense of the idea of team work, you’re not showing much understanding of the idea.
It’s no good those holding the lines giving up their positions to cap the OBJ when they could be overrun by respawning enemies at any point. If they hold them off then the area behind them remains easy pickings for those who’s job it is to cap the point.
This is a very simple idea and base tactics when it comes to OBJ capture games.
[QUOTE=Shadowcat;332441]
You might as well have been fighting by their side, died, and respawned with them.[/quote]
I’m ready to being ignoring your contributions to this thread if this is what you honestly believe. In the time spent counting down the respawn timer, collecting your wits, and returning to the OBJ area, the good you had done previously would be undone. To what degree depends on the enemy competence, but it could include turrets, removed hackboxes, etc…
I would like to say one thing: this might not matter that much in Public games as the majority of players are not skilled enough to worry about, so I’m certain many of you /have/ simply thrown yourself again and again against the OBJ with little regard for survival at the cost of ticking up the timer each time AND won doing this.
However, against a competent team using tactics such as those stated here you’ll be crushed. It’s really that simple.
I’m willing to prove this. IF we can gather enough ps3 players to do so, but I shouldn’t have to. Anyone with enough experience will know that efficient and well organised teams > hurling yourself at OBJs.
You’re free to play Brink any way you like, of course. Hurl yourself at OBJs all day if you like. I’ll keep winning the games I play with competent teams and efficient planning.
Cheers!
I’m sorry, but all supply can be managed well without the need to fall back on this inefficient tactic. This works in pub games when you’re playing with half a team of bots and players who own’t join your fire team, and it’s very valid then, but build a competent team who are willing to work together and the need is gone entirely.
Brink is so ripe for tactical team building, and if you play more intelligently with more consideration you /will/ become a better player. I’m not sure why people are denying this…
In a game based on shooting, killing, and cooperation to help your team win or lose, the most important stat would have to be W/L. However, I do agree that KDR is a very very important stat.
I’m not saying that there should be K/D stat tracking in the game, BUT …
An operative and his team who can clear out a room in order to hack an objective without dying a bunch of times is much more effective than an operative and his team who keep dying over and over and over.
A team escorting a hostage will be much more successful if they die less instead of having to keep respawning because they die more times than they can kill.
A team defending an objective will FAIL if they keep dying, allowing the breaching team to dominate the area and complete the objective without challenge because the defending team is dying more than they are killing.
You get it?
I’m sick of people thinking that because this is a heavy team-based game, things like KDR don’t matter. They do. The statistic itself does not matter. What matters is the skill and ability to hold a high KDR because doing so frustrates the other team and makes completing objectives a lot tougher for them.
If KDR doesn’t matter… how is a team going to win if they can’t survive long enough to complete the objective?
