2 way attack maps.


(signofzeta) #1

Will ET:QW have any stock maps where both teams attack?

An example would be Depot in RTCW where axis must destroy allied operations, and allies have to destroy the axis anti aircraft gun.

In the xbox version, the same maps are there, except that depot became “trainyard and depot” where in trainyard, axis attacks, and depot allies attacks. The attacking spawnpoint would be in the forward spawn instead of the PC version’s spawn near their own objective area.

I haven’t seen any attack-attack maps in w:et. I hope there are some in ET:QW.

If there aren’t any, that’s ok.


(carnage) #2

you mean dual objective maps. i seriously doubt you will be seeing these in ETQW as they tend to be very unbalanced and can make for some quite unpredictable gameplay

they also require the teams to split up to attack and defend multiple locations where ETQW is supost to focus all the players around a sertain area on the map


(signofzeta) #3

I was thinking about that, but I thought about tug of war where one team can push the other team back to defend until they can reach and blow up the objective. The attacker’s team would have their spawn point advanced. The defending team can push back the attacking team far enough that the defending team can become the attacking team after they recieve the central spawn point.

I would doubt that that is what ET:QW is all about though. And also the maps would have to be ridiculously huge in order for this to work.

I don’t want SD to start making these 2 way attack maps, but want to see if there are going to be any.


(Loffy) #4

I think there will be official dual obj maps. Why not?


(DG) #5

imho dual obj is best suited to particularily large, complex maps, and on servers dedicated to that one map.

I’ve had some fun playing depot and marketgarden but they dont half screw up a server when they come in the middle of a rotation.


(carnage) #6

An example would be Depot in RTCW where axis must destroy allied operations, and allies have to destroy the axis anti aircraft gun.

yes but when playing its usually the team who holds the forward spawn point that loses because it allows a lone engineer to slip past the team and reach the undefended objective while the team without the forward spawn start right on top of there objective and is virtually impossible to lose it

a tug of war were spawns have to be captured in order could work but Kevin cloud in one of the videos said that when an objective is lost you cant get it back in order to keep the map flowing. if he was referring to that particular map or the idea behind the whole gameplay isn’t clear


(DarkangelUK) #7

If you want dual objective inspiration then please look at RTCW, not ET… RTCW DO maps were amazing.


(BrightSoul) #8

I wouldn’t mind if one (or two at most) maps out of 12 were dual objective.

well, that happens a lot in W:ET and I don’t see how it is a problem. Take Battery for example: someone is trying to climb the assault ramp, some other is trying to sneak in via the back door. Having just 1 front line would be dull and frustrating at times, not to mention it would be a paradise for campers on the defender team.

Also, I’d enjoy a linear map where the teams play some tug of war: 5 spawn points to capture and recapture one after the other, as mentioned by carnage. When the time’s up, the team who controls the more wins. If you control all five you win prematurely. (no dispersion here, it’s just 1 spawn point you can capture at a given moment).


(Dr_Tenma) #9

Interesting ideas, but I actually don’t see this happening in ETQW. Of course, it’s pretty early to tell but I’m really liking the idea Kevin Cloud mentioned at QuakeCon (and carnage in this thread) of how objectives are irreversible - so that games don’t go back and forth in scoring/progress. Seems to me that territory capture is irreversible too, for every map in the game.


(signofzeta) #10

hey, maybe there is an option for map makers to set up a spawn that is reclaimable for both teams.

And maybe there will be a custom map that has dual objectives.


(airon) #11

It may very well be the subject that modmakers could tackle.

Dual objectives have been part of many games. CTF, or steal and escape, is a game mode like that. Being a longtime Truecombat player, I’ve come across a few good missions in the 1.x versions of the game(a Q3 mod btw). Several maps had missions like this : Team A needs to blow up two or three places. Team B needs to get a key, steal a case and escape.

The maps were not terribly large (all infantry play too), but by putting objectives of both teams in close proximity to each other, things became interesting. The Cityheat map was the largest of them all, and was said to have the best mission gameplay for TC.

In ET:QW the advancing-frontline-type of gameplay is one way of doing things. Dual objectives may be harder to design, but certainly we can discuss ideas right here right now and clear off some design roadblocks.

Dual Objectives require teams to divide their attention, but it’s similar to what is already in the QW game. The introductory videos to one of the maps showed that as some point certain classes need to perform vital functions, but of course the rest of the team needs to support that, so diversionary or cover tactics will attempt to draw the opposing teams attention. The difference to dual objectives like the triple bomb/find-steal-escape scenario, is that in QW you are forced to do concentrate on one goal at all times.

To illustrate, here’s how some rounds of Cityheat on TC mission play went. RED rushed to two of the three bomb spots to blow them up, at the same time attempting to seal off access to the key room, which would give the BLUE team access to the case, and subsequently the chance to escape and win the round. BLUE rushed to at least one of the bomb spots to prevent RED from blowing up all three of the bomb spots, which would have RED winning the round. Since these were usualy 1-life matches, everyone was sneaking around, trying not to get caught. Things would get interesting when RED blew up two bomb spots, and BLUE had the case and was making a go at escaping. When a bomb was set, BLUE had 30 seconds to disarm it. 30 seconds was not enough to make your way from the where you picked up the case to the escape exit though. So once you knew where the BLUE player with the case was, RED could be sure to set off the bomb or not without fear of losing the round. Manic hunting scenarios, last second escapes and lots of bombs blowing up in your face after disarming attempts played out. This was all single-life play usually.

One question for ET:QW in scenarios like this is, how to handle respawning.

How about having Capture and Hold points that can be disabled by the opposition ? Bombs, computer viruses or a spawned player has to stay alive for 30 seconds at least to give others a chance to spawn there. Opposition spawn points could be in places your team cannot reach, like the rooftop of a skyscraper or similar tall building. Some spawn points could be permanent. Some could be portable, but not within a certain range of certain places.

That alone is a game by itself.

Objectives are numerous. An example is …

Locking down the area:
GDF is posted in a underground facility and is besieged by a Strogg group that prevents the GDF from calling in reinforcements (limited respawn ?) by shielding their communication with some fancy device.

The missions:
The Strogg need to immobilize the GDF troups for stroggification by using chemical agents to sedate them. The chemicals need to be released in certain points of the ventilation system to be effective. Once successfully set up by an engineer or sniper, the device becomes a spawn point after 30 seconds. Sedated sections become spawn points for the Stroggs to speed up their takeover. These ‘spawn points’ can be disabled only by the engineer or sniper class, who are the only onces equipped with gas masks. They blow up the spawn points.

The Strogg win by setting up a number of spawn points or keeping their communication shield intact.

The GDF has to keep the Strogg advance in check and blow up the communication shield. It has a bunch of spawn points that the Strogg can take over.

A simple objective, I know. The facility could be like an large mine, with small vehicles that travel the tunnels to useful sections, like a larger car park.

Then you’ve got missions like,
“Go and steal a key, get the goods and get the hell out. But don’t get your transport blown up, or you’ll have to steal a new one.”

or

GDF: "We’ve blown up the power plant. You’ve just left the air transport, but the opposition has activated their backup power. Go and steal the bio weapon/nuke/other stupid stuff, switch off or blow up(difficult) their backup power generator to deactivate their automatic defense turrets(or blow up the guns themselves-difficult!) and call in the air transport (1 minute until it arrives).

STROGG: Activate backup power to secure electronic doors, reactivate the automatic defense turrets and bring the lights back on. Launch the bio weapon/nuke/other stupid stuff. Protect the backup power generator and defensive turret.


(carnage) #12

it is almost certain that this will be possible along with other things like CTF maps etc. even though they might not include any with the game i would be very surprised if it was not possible


(Dr_Tenma) #13

it is almost certain that this will be possible along with other things like CTF maps etc. even though they might not include any with the game i would be very surprised if it was not possible[/quote]

This is already in the game… I’ve watched and re-watched every single scrap of available gameplay footage for ETQW (yeah, I’m that desperate for this game to come out =P).

You can clearly see some messages come up on the screen with the voiceover, on the Valley map… “We’ve captured the forward spawn” or “We’ve lost the forward spawn.” On Valley in particular, I believe 2 reversibly capture-able spawn points are in the side rooms of the tunnel past the constructed bridge and another across the second, bigger bridge.


(carnage) #14

it is almost certain that this will be possible along with other things like CTF maps etc. even though they might not include any with the game i would be very surprised if it was not possible[/quote]

This is already in the game… I’ve watched and re-watched every single scrap of available gameplay footage for ETQW (yeah, I’m that desperate for this game to come out =P).

You can clearly see some messages come up on the screen with the voiceover, on the Valley map… “We’ve captured the forward spawn” or “We’ve lost the forward spawn.” On Valley in particular, I believe 2 reversibly capture-able spawn points are in the side rooms of the tunnel past the constructed bridge and another across the second, bigger bridge.[/quote]

i think the forward spawns are a sort of secondary objective to help you reach the primary objective at that time. its unclear what they mean by the you cant get it back when its gone thing but i expect they are talking about the main objectives. a tug of war would place capturing the spawns as a primary objective

it seems from reading the objectives in a map that to capture what seem to be more important spawns a MCP must be bought to an area and set up to capture it


(Dr_Tenma) #15

That’s what I meant, if my post was unclear. It’s pretty obvious that the 4 big objectives of Valley can’t be recovered once they’re lost. These are the big spawn points, with extra vehicles, and a big chunk of territory on the map.

The Tunnel Room and Resevoir Spawns are smaller ones between two bigger objectives, which give a slight edge to whichever team currently holds it. These look like they go back and forth, hell they even seem to be captured pretty instantly. Or so it seems purely based off videos =P


(Bongoboy) #16

None of the maps that ETQW ships with have both teams attacking: in all of them one team attacks, one defends. Objectives are not reversible: you can’t unbuild the bridge once built, or unhack the shield generator once hacked or rebuild the barricade once built or repair the jamming tower generator once destroyed.

Of course, that’s just the maps we’ll ship with. We can’t wait to see what teh mod0rz cre8.


(Sauron|EFG) #17

No more flying tanks then, eh? :slight_smile:


(ParanoiD) #18

No more flying tanks then, eh? :)[/quote]

Like this one?