1st gen vs 2nd gen loadouts

(SkrubLord) #1

A lot of cards have changed since the 2nd edition cards came out, and the main purpose of making 2nd edition loadouts was getting rid of the bad cards and making them better overall. But something I have noticed: some 1st edition cards are better than the 2nd edition. For example: Skyhammer T63 1st edition: Timik, Simeon.357 and Cricket Bat. Perks: Explodydedron, Fail Safe and Quick Slash. I think this card is way better than any of the new cards for him, and I’m gonna keep my Swiss Gold T63 card till I die. It’s not worth it trading it up for a cobalt, cause they are worse. Now I have noticed for example the new Phantom cards have improved alot, replacing all the Beckhill loadouts with katanas making them way better just by that. Have you noticed any other 1st edition cards that are better than the new ones?

All loadoutcards can be found here: http://dirtybomb.gamepedia.com/Cards (click each merc to see the 2nd edition cards for each merc)

(KUST__LunarTM) #2

Sparks 343 Modern Agent is the best of Spark’s only two melee cards in Gen I. She lost any melee perks in Gen II.

(TheStrangerous) #3

If they ever make 3rd gen cards, obviously they need to implement brand new augments.

(Kekler) #4

or you could just check the ingame store

(SkrubLord) #5

or you could just check the ingame store
[/quote]

That also, but it’s easier to open another website than starting the game and check :slight_smile:

(Equanimity) #6

“Phantom cards have improved alot, replacing all the Beckhill loadouts with katanas making them way better just by that.”

NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

(KUST__LunarTM) #7

Should’ve just had Beckhill and Katana loadouts, imo.

(SkrubLord) #8

[quote=“Equanimity;189772”]“Phantom cards have improved alot, replacing all the Beckhill loadouts with katanas making them way better just by that.”

NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/quote]

The katana is what makes Phantom special. The 2nd edition cards improved your chances of getting a katana loadout to 66,666666…% from 33,333333…%. A Phantom without a katana is not a Phantom worth having :slight_smile:

(Equanimity) #9

Knife = move faster = more useful for changing positions while stealthed.

Phantom is not a melee merc. If he was then his stealth wouldn’t sound like a jet engine and be so damn easy to see. Semi-intelligent players will shut you down before you can get in range. His best application is as a run and gun skirmisher, making picks on VIPS (obj spec or medics). He can’t even do that that well now with his cooldown nerfed for the EMP effect he picked up, but that is definitely his best usage.

(MisterBadmin) #10

@SkrubLord
There are those that subscribe to the “Phantom isn’t a melee class” philosophy.

These are the people that will gun you down at range and use the katana almost exclusively as a gib-stick.

It does appear that @Equanimity is one of these. I can’t say I disagree with him.

(SkrubLord) #11

[quote=“MisterBadmin;189778”]@SkrubLord
There are those that subscribe to the “Phantom isn’t a melee class” philosophy.

These are the people that will gun you down at range and use the katana almost exclusively as a gib-stick.

It does appear that @Equanimity is one of these. I can’t say I disagree with him.[/quote]

I know that his ability is not invisible and the katana is only good if you know how to use it. But Phantom is and has always been marketed as a stealth merc with the katana as his trademark. Proxy/Aura/Fletcher has shotguns, Thunder and Fragger has powerfull machine-guns and Phantom has the katana. Anyhow, Phantom was only an example that I thought was improved with the 2nd edition loadouts. If you think otherwise that is completely fine, this is a discussion afterall, I want to hear opinions and reasons :slight_smile:

[spoiler]I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire[/spoiler]

(Equanimity) #12

The katana is only good against idiots who will let you get that close to them, and even still it’s much easier to just double long jump/wall jump with Kira’s superior speed to use the katana, over crawling while still slightly visable and humming like an engine towards your enemies. It slows your movement speed and your gib time for general gameplay. It isn’t a worthy trade off. Sure it’s fun for some cheesy play but it isn’t viable against decent players.

So really I’d argue that, while the augments are of course significantly better, the choice in melee weapons for Phantom was actually a step backwards.

I’m sure there are a few outliers of loadouts that were better in gen 1, too. I think Kira and maybe Arty had Stark cards that this applies to.

(doxjq) #13

I don’t disagree that some first gen cards are better than the second gen version (Arty S72 is the best example imo) but wtf, why is the beckhill worse than the katana? Katana Phantom is literally cancer and doesn’t make him more viable. I don’t even use Phantom (I literally have 1 hour or something with him) and even I know the best way to use him if by flanking and using your gun, not being a melee hero. The katana is crap.

(Dawnlazy) #14

^that, however I still went katana only Kira like an idiot in some pubs just to get a 20 melee kills badge because I didn’t have one and having an incomplete badge collection is giving me OCD (I’m looking at you 50 Assists).

(arcaneCanvas) #15

beckhill does the same job slower but provides more agility to the player.

would i trade speed to damage?
hell no

i still remember the day i accidentally traded my beckhill silver phantom for Kiratana.

(Nibbles02) #16

Kira with a Katana is downright useful, especially for CQC situations because she’s all high-stopping power and low-dps/fire rate. Phantom is not meant for CQC but he was marketed with the Katana because he’s designed as a Samurai, armor and all, and not having a Katana would just be wrong, especially since that was the main weapon of choice for many Samurai and Shogun in feudal Japan. The only reason they gave Kira a Katana is that she’s actually Japanese and it fits her more than captain lone-wolf with his Samurai gear.

Even in the scrubs trailer he’s marketed as a ranged flank, who’s meant to take out outliers and breach areas where the advance has been totally halted, such as snipers, Rhinos, and medics, which the EMP only exemplifies. If you try to melee all the time you’ll get gunned down if anyone’s a decent shot.

Even so, the Katana should only be used if you run out of ammo as a good last-ditch weapon or if someone gets too close, and you should never just charge with it.

(BananaSlug) #17

nothing changed most of old best cards are still best

(LifeupOmega) #18

BL61 for Phantom is superior just because its not stuck with a garbage fucking slow stick that makes gibbing and moving take longer.

CR42 for Sawbonez has Drilled/Potent/Focus

S81 is debatable for Kira, I personally like both variants.

[quote=“SkrubLord;189776”][quote=“Equanimity;189772”]“Phantom cards have improved alot, replacing all the Beckhill loadouts with katanas making them way better just by that.”

NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE[/quote]

The katana is what makes Phantom special.[/quote]

So why does Kira have it then? It’s not his signature ability. It’s a dumb playstyle that the 90hp laser lady does better than the guy who got it first.

(ProfPlump) #19

[quote=“SkrubLord;30863”]A lot of cards have changed since the 2nd edition cards came out, and the main purpose of making 2nd edition loadouts was getting rid of the bad cards and making them better overall. But something I have noticed: some 1st edition cards are better than the 2nd edition. For example: Skyhammer T63 1st edition: Timik, Simeon.357 and Cricket Bat. Perks: Explodydedron, Fail Safe and Quick Slash. I think this card is way better than any of the new cards for him, and I’m gonna keep my Swiss Gold T63 card till I die. It’s not worth it trading it up for a cobalt, cause they are worse. Now I have noticed for example the new Phantom cards have improved alot, replacing all the Beckhill loadouts with katanas making them way better just by that. Have you noticed any other 1st edition cards that are better than the new ones?

All loadoutcards can be found here: http://dirtybomb.gamepedia.com/Cards (click each merc to see the 2nd edition cards for each merc)[/quote]

I DEFINITELY don’t think that Skyhammer’s best Timik card was the 1st gen card - his 2nd gen cards come with a Timik that has Double Time, Drilled, and a S&W Revolver. That’s FAR better than having Explodydendron, Failsafe (a fucking useless perk except for Fletcher), and a lesser Simeon revolver.

But at the same time there are definitely other mercs with Gen 1 cards that were better.

  • Kira’s best Stark card in Gen 1 had Drilled, Mechanic, and Untrackable, while in Gen 2 it loses Mechanic and Untrackable and gets Enigma and Bomb Squad instead… Ew (but luckily I have the Gen 1 version in Gold so I’m all good here ^_^)
  • Sawbonez’ Crotzni Drilled card (which was arguably better than his other Crotzni cards - some think it is, some don’t) has also been nerfed in the Gen 2. In Gen 1 it had Potent Packs, Drilled, and Focus, while in Gen 2 it loses Potent Packs and Focus, which are replaced with Quickdraw and Spares.
  • Sparks’ 343 card was very popular due to its Chopper augment alongside the Cricket Bat and Get Up augment (especially since the previously godlike 383 loadout had its Quick Charge augment DRASTICALLY nerfed to only 10%). However now this 343 card’s Chopper has been removed and replaced with less useful augments.
  • Arty’s Stark card with Mechanic and Explodydendron used to have a Stilletto in Gen 1, whereas now it has a Cricket Bat. I know some people prefer the Bat, but I personally prefer having the extra speed boost from using a knife rather than a bat/kukri/katana.
(doxjq) #20

[quote=“ProfPlump;190013”]
I DEFINITELY don’t think that Skyhammer’s best Timik card was the 1st gen card - his 2nd gen cards come with a Timik that has Double Time, Drilled, and a S&W Revolver. That’s FAR better than having Explodydendron, Failsafe (a @$!# useless perk except for Fletcher), and a lesser Simeon revolver.[/quote]

Agreed. M92 was always my favourite Skyhammer card, but now this new Timik card is. I barely use Skyhammer any way, but drilled and double time is a legit combo.

[quote=“ProfPlump;190013”]

  • Arty’s Stark card with Mechanic and Explodydendron used to have a Stilletto in Gen 1, whereas now it has a Cricket Bat. I know some people prefer the Bat, but I personally prefer having the extra speed boost from using a knife rather than a bat/kukri/katana.[/quote]

Agreed again. I don’t even see why they changed that card. It has always been regarded as his most balanced card. Luckily I got the S82 in CW last year though so I’m not fussed, but giving it the bat and calling it the S83 was incredibly silly imo. The bat is so slow.

S72 is another good one. The first gen one is far superior to the second gen one, especially after the changes to tough.