10-Map Campaign Servers are Lame!!!!

(Kendle) #1

Heh

I’m always expressing rather controversial views on various things and being told to “shut the f*ck up they’re part of the game”, etc. So I thought I’d start a thread about a common phenomenum that isn’t “part of the game” and wondered whether / if anyone would like to defend this totally non-standard aspect.

I’m talking about 10-map Campaign servers.

SD provided us with two 3-map Campaigns. To make a Campaign with more than 3 maps requires some jiggery pokery with .pk3 files.

So first of all I’d like an opinion on whether hacking .pk3 files is “OK”, balancing this argument against the general consensus of opinion (expressed in a recent thread) that using a Mod to disable XP isn’t “OK”. i.e., Are some changes to what the game designers intended “OK” whilst others aren’t?

Secondly, I’d like an opinion on 10-map Campaign servers in general. Why do people that play on them do so? Surely a server full of LVL4 Generals is NOT the same thing as a “normal” server, and I can’t believe SD ever intended for that to be the case. Also, is it really “fair play” for new players joining the server to have to start so far behind those that have been there a few hours?

Personally I think 10-map Campaigns are a perversion of the game and bear little resemblence to the ET I know and love (and little resemblence to the game SD intended it to be).

Flame away!! :clap:

(fattakin) #2

To be honest i never have the time to play 10maps!!

Any evening i know im gonna get 2 hrs max before Girlf / Work / Mates / Beer comes into the equation so there is no point going up against some dude who’s been playing for teh last 5 hrs… Id rather jump into a standar 3 map campaign and dish it out as normal…

I think its XP Whores who are attracted to 10map campaigns…

(Sick Boy) #3

Please think about the less-skilled player who needs a screenshot saying he’s a general to prove to his online buddies that he’s truly 1337!

I don’t mind these servers existing, but I would appreciate them saying explicitly in their name it’s a 6/8/10 map campaign or a server browser telling me this so I can avoid them a bit easier :slight_smile:

(Rockford) #4

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with modifying .pk3 files or creating custom campaigns. To be honest, though, by the end of even a six map campaign, I get a little bored. I’ve never played a full ten map campaign, and I doubt I ever will. On the other hand, sometimes I like to connect to a server deep into the campaign, when everyone is all levelled up, to see how well I can do starting from scratch.

(SylverDragon) #5

Shut the f*ck up they’re part of the game! you asked for it, so someone had to say it. (Not that I’m all that passionate about it.)
I don’t think I would spend much time defending 10 map campaigns, but I have played on a few servers with them. Mostly, it was because they had about the right number of players for me (16 - 20), but also, because I had a lot of time to kill and I like continuity. This may sound silly to you, but, I would have thought that you would enjoy a 10 map campaign. After about the 3rd map, the XP becomes pointless, everyone is level 4 Light Weapons, Battle Sense, and also several class skills. At that point, its simply a matter of playing for the objective, playing for XP at that point is not going to get you much. Sure, everyone is a general by the middle of the campaign, so what’s the problem? Now, if you come on to the server late in one of those campaigns, ya, you’re at a disadvantage; but, get over it. Its not insurmountable, high XP provides for a few advantages, but nothing so bad that a good player can’t still waste me in a 1 on 1 firefight.
As for the question of modifiying .pk3 files, for whatever reason (disable XP, extend a campaign, etc.), hey, the server belongs to the admin, they get to decide what runs, deal with it.
As for the ET you know and love, it would seem that you are ignoring, or actively hating one of the aspects of it. All things considered, most FPS games now are made with some thought towards end user modification, why should this one be any different? This is just another mod, if you don’t like it, don’t play it, simple. As for me, I enjoy a long campaign now and again. (Just wish I could play this week, computer is packed up while in the middle of a move :()

(Sauron|EFG) #6

I think it’s ok to make new campaigns with customs, or to remove less popular stock maps, but I personally avoid servers running campaigns longer than 3 maps.

Most maps works best early on in campaigns (or in SW), and turn into horrible spammage when played as 4th or 5th map. :disgust:

(Vengeance) #7

I guess its all about choice and what u like. if u like more than the normal 3 map capaigns, then fine go play them and if u dont like them simply try to avoid them.

and has for XP, i dont mind playing the opposing team if they had a million xp and i had 0. not that im any good at the game its just something that has never ever bothered me.

(Kendle) #8

I’d have no problem with multi-map Campaign servers at all, if it were easy to avoid them. Unfortunately the server browser (built-in or ASE etc.) doesn’t tell you how many maps are in the Campaign, so you can only find out by joining the server.

If it were easy to avoid them, something as simple as the fact it’s non-default in the server hostname for example, then I’d have no problem with them. They keep the XP whores off the servers I do play on.

I’m glad someone has responded with a “it’s part of the game” argument, cos it blatantly isn’t. I also note the point about server admins can do what they like with .pk3 files. That’s getting into dodgy ground IMO. Would you still take that view if the server admin altered files on the server in some way to give them an advantage over you? (struggle to think of an example off-hand but in concept). Is it really OK for server admins to “hack” the game files themsleves? Maybe it’s the same thing as a Mod, except a Mod is developed by a 3rd party and is easily identifyable.

PS: I’m being deliberatly provocative with this thread, as I know multi-map Campaign servers are popular. I’m just trying to understand the mindset, but, as with the fascination with XP, I’m struggling.

(Rain) #9

Campaigns and such are actually distributed separately, in their own pk3s, so it’s not hacking the existing ones per se. It’s closer in concept to a skin/model pk3 in Q3.

(^POTATO) #10

I like servers that play a round of a map, then swaps teams (without reseting the XP), plays through another round, then on to a new map (this time the xp resets).

(Computertech) #11

I think the answer you are looking for is really just a simple one. PPl don’t want to play the same map over and over and over and over, etc. Having a campaign that stretches over 10 maps no longer has you playing the same thing over, instead you get a nice change. It really has nothing to do with XP as I’ve seen 3-map/6-map servers that doesn’t reset the xp.

(Wasted!) #12

well, ASE tells you the xp for each player on a server when you select it… if there are too many players with more than e.g. 1000 xp, don’t join

also it could help adding the servers that you like to your favourites list…

(SylverDragon) #13

I agree with the point about not knowing what one is getting into, before joining a server. I really wish that more admins would be upfront, and tell everyone what abnormal things they are running on their server, in the server name. But I still stand by the statement that an admin may do as they wish on thier server. Now, it may cause thier server to be empty, but that is sort of the way people vote on whether or not they like the mods. That is, afterall, all that this sort of change is, a mod. Sure, its not as extensive as the mods from Bani or Shrub, but its still a mod. And, if we are going to call hacking a pk3 file “not part of the game”, shouldn’t we call etPro, or the Shrub mod “not part of the game”, or does having the source code, lend some sort of legitimacy to the changes they make?
As for an admin modifying a file to give them an advantage over me, that’s fine, its thier server. I do wish they would give me a bit of warning, but its up to them to decide how to run thier server, I probably won’t play on it, but it thier decision as the admin, not mine as the non-paying player.
I think in the end, this is just a case of opinion. Some of us like long campaign servers. Some don’t, nothing to get your panties in a bunch about. This reminds me of a friend of mine asking me why I liked football (US version, why didn’t they pick a different name?), all the arguments eventually come down to, I just do. We all have our likes and dislikes, and most would be hard pressed to defend them. Sure, you hate XP, and long campaigns, others don’t. Don’t bother trying to understand it, you never will, just accept the fact that people will hold different opinions than you do.

(Thanatos) #14

i see it as a challenge when i join a 10 map campaign server halfway. it’s one of the few ways to really test/improve your skills. and most 10 map servers also have custom maps that make it a bit of a variation from the standard 6 maps.

(Rockford) #15

Kendle, I’m not sure why you think this isn’t part of the game, since SD gives information both in the documentation and in the forums on how to edit the campaign files. See, just for example, the following thread:

http://www.splashdamage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1771

So I’m not sure how you’ve come to this conclusion.

(SCDS_reyalP) #16

I’m not fond of long campaigns.

On a 3 map server getting on level 4 everything for just one class is a challenge.
If you join late in the game on a 3 map server, there will most likely only be a few people who are max level.

I certainly play on servers with longer campaigns if there are other things I like about them, but IMO, 3 map is pretty much idea.

Having a campaign that stretches over 10 maps no longer has you playing the same thing over, instead you get a nice change

Uhh no. You have more than one campaign in rotation, e.g. 2 3 map campaigns and a 4 map. Or you could run all ten maps SW rotation :smiley:

(Kendle) #17

Yeah I guess. Like I said I’m being deliberately provocative here because when I argue against XP I’m told it’s part of the game (even though ETPro can disable it) and it’s what the makers intended, etc., and I’m the one being lame even daring to question the merit of the XP system.

It’s called Stopwatch. It’s how the “Pro” server in my sig operates and is the only true competitive mode for the game, and the only true test of skill and teamwork.

well, ASE tells you the xp for each player on a server when you select it… if there are too many players with more than e.g. 1000 xp, don’t join…also it could help adding the servers that you like to your favourites list…[/quote]
Good point about the high XP, and I do have favourites, it’s just that occassionally, if they’re all empty and I go looking elsewhere, it’d be nice to be able to filter out the multi-map Campaign servers completely.

Won’t get any argument from me on that one. I’ve already got into several arguments with people defending server Admins rights to do whatever they want with their own servers.

Maybe. I don’t know. I’m looking for a concensus of opinion here.

I don’t see how multi-map Campaigns are a challenge. At first you’ll be at a disadvantage maybe, but as you progress and others join after you you’ll have an advantage over them. Every time you go head-to-head with someone you’re never sure if it’s your own skill that beats them (or theirs that beats you) or some artificial advantage bestowed on you (or them) by the games built-in and fundamentally flawed points system.

Stopwatch is the only true test of skill and teamwork, because XP doesn’t get in the way, and it comes down to simply your skill against theirs. And teamwork is paramount because you not only have to complete the objective, but you have to do it quicker than the other team did.

If server admins wanted to provide map variation they could just as easily put 10 different maps on the server in single-map Objective or Stopwatch mode. They’re only wrapped up in a Campaign because of XP.

As I said, I’m being deliberately provocative on this point. I want to see how many people are going to show themselves to have double-standards.

(mouse) #18

My clan server (Death Incarnates) runs a 6-map campaign for ages now, and im beginning to dislike it. Why?

Its the XP: Joining at the 3rd or 4th map gives you a big XP disadvantage, its frustrating to go up against a medic with 154 HP and Adrenaline.

Also i dont like it that i cant play a map competitive, because in a campaign some players are more busy with there xp, then teamplay and objectives. Stopwatch mode is a better way to see wich team has higher skills / better teamplay.

But i like the players on that server so much, that i will play on it eventually, being frustrated by the XP whores and the long games from time to time.

(Digm) #19

Stopwatch is the only true test of skill and teamwork, because XP doesn’t get in the way, and it comes down to simply your skill against theirs. And teamwork is paramount because you not only have to complete the objective, but you have to do it quicker than the other team did.

Actually, LMS is the only true test of skill and teamwork. You only get one life, and if you can’t own, or your teammates don’t back you up, you be dead. Of course, there are no objectives - except for staying alive.

You can have just as much of a disadvantage with SW - I’ve gotten 4 stars light weps & 3 stars battle sense in a single “half” round of SW. We all started at the same time, and with 0 xp, so is that still unfair?

If there were no XP system, and no rewards for kickin’ ass, the game wouldn’t be as fun. It’d be CoD with classes :stuck_out_tongue:

(Kendle) #20

Which is why I don’t play it. It’s fundamentally NOT the game I love. The whole point of ET (for me) is the objectives. Take those out and it’s not ET (for me), and of course is the reason why the majority of Clans play SW rather than LMS. LMS may be a test of skill, but it’s not a test of teamwork.

You can level up in a single SW round, but you’re far less likely too than in a 10-map Campaign. SW doesn’t eliminate the problem of XP, but it goes a long way to reducing it to almost harmless levels.

If there were no XP ET would be exactly the same game it is now, except each player on the server would only have their own natural abilities to rely on, rather than be assigned additional abilities by the game simply for being on the server for a certain length of time. XP isn’t what makes ET (for me), it’s the objectives and the Classes.