1 shot kills - which weapons?

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #41

My opinion is that sniper should be effective at long range but have to switch to secondary at close. You can’t ignore the secondary weapon when balancing. Essentially the shotty class and the sniper class need to be inverse in terms of DPS. Sniper is good long-medium while shotty is good short-medium.

Shotty should be “solid” for close but not an auto win although it depends on what you consider an close. Some people are saying 3 shots but that that’s bull**** with the current FOPS/Medic DPS. Mr. Ed said there is CURRENTLY no headshot multiplier for the shotty. The shotty engie class needs to be reasonable at something and currently I think engie girl is worse at everything except throwing mines and shooting them for damage. Playing tonight against Leestyle and Valdez, both who outshoot me, even they couldn’t 1 shot me and took 2-3 shots with the shotgun. Balancing the shotty is a nightmare but it needs to be super effective at <5m and reasonable at 5-7m. Engie girl pistol should be used 7m+.

(tokamak) #42

I believe that if you can make all the pellets hit your target that it should be a kill. However, making one or more pellets miss should lower your damage substantially otherwise finishing off with the second hit would be too easy.

(warbie) #43

I think the shotgun needs a head shot modifier. For it to be viable it has to be able to kill in one shot if up close - otherwise there’s little reason to ever choose a shotgun over an automatic - and up close a body shot is too easy to pull off. Players will get frustrated and the weapon will get branded overpowered. If we have to have a shotgun, then a centered headshot when toe to toe should be a one hit kill. So we have to earn it. Everything else, regardless of distance, should require two or more hits.

(tokamak) #44

It’s much harder to get all the pellets hit your target than it is to have a few pellets hit a head.

That’s why the shotgun needs to reward bodyshots and not headshots.

(warbie) #45

Surely it depends on distance? If you’re toe to toe, a centered headshot will land pretty much all pellets into their head. As it’s easier to have all pellets hit the target the closer you’re are, I think we need a headshot modifier - otherwise it’s easy mode. I’m all for some fancy algorithm that makes the shotgun viable and I like your earlier suggestion, but this is the only instance that I’d be happy with a one shot kill.

Not sure I agree with the above picture btw, at least in terms of skill and luck. In that example the damage would be roughly equal? Aim wise both look pretty centered and on target, one’s just aiming lower.

(Ashog) #46

[QUOTE=tokamak;433955]It’s much harder to get all the pellets hit your target than it is to have a few pellets hit a head.

That’s why the shotgun needs to reward bodyshots and not headshots.[/QUOTE]

tbh, the names you placed on the pics should look the other way around. First it takes skill to always aim for the head, game should reward people to do that. Especially with shotguns where the shots are discrete and there’s a delay between them, so can’t track head with bullets as with SMGs.
Also nice job manipulating the pellet pattern on the picture. If you took the left pic pattern, the head on the right would receive at least 2 pellets, which imho should be instant death (in any game AND in rl).

(tokamak) #47

Dont look at the pellets, look at the circles and how much of the silhouette they cover.

Especially with shotguns where the shots are discrete and there’s a delay between them, so can’t track head with bullets as with SMGs.

Exactly my point.

(Ashog) #48

No, it’s not your point, because you claim that only most pellets landing on a body part should kill you, whereas I am saying that even 2 would be enuff iff they land on head not on body.

(tokamak) #49

…and because you have very little control over the way the pellets are distributed you’ll end up with lucky hits on the head. And sure they may offset the large amount of pellets that you miss through this but I think that’s not a testament to skill at all.

Real skill is to get as many hits on your target as possible with one shot. Headshots shouldn’t offset the amount of pellets you miss by aiming elsewhere.

(warbie) #50

But that’s just a matter of distance. The closer you are the easier it is for all your pellets to land on target. As the shotgun should be dealing death at close ranges it make sense to be aiming for the head as distribution will be low and most pellets will hit home even when aiming for the smaller target (all while requiring more player skill and being less lame).

I do like your stacking idea, though, and think a slight headshot bonus should be added. Enough so that it’s only possible to kill in one hit if most pellets land on on the head.

(Whhaayy) #51

indeed

+1

(INF3RN0) #52

Sniper just needs to have zero spread at close range, make it a high aim skill weapon, make it reallllly hard to use well close range against other weapons, make it… oh wait it’s already like that. Just because someone who was good with the sniper killed you at close range one time doesn’t mean it needs to change.

(INF3RN0) #53

[QUOTE=tokamak;433955]It’s much harder to get all the pellets hit your target than it is to have a few pellets hit a head.

That’s why the shotgun needs to reward bodyshots and not headshots.[/QUOTE]

Lol that’s not really proving a valid point. All your saying is aiming at a larger mass means you will hit more because the spread is so wide, which is just the functionality of a shotgun. It would take more skill to aim at the head, but if the spread is that random you would hit the head at random too. Shotgun has always been the “noob” weapon because that’s how we designed it to be, same with the rocket launcher and grenade launcher. Why not try to apply some kind of real skill system to these types of weapons and not just a realistic system. After all it takes 3-4 headshots to kill someone with pin-point aim head tracking, while the shotgun can kill at close range with a hugely smaller requirement of aim focus. If we want shotgun to be for those who don’t want to aim track the head, then why don’t we just make it 2-3body shots with a higher TTK than a rifle getting all 80%+headshots. Otherwise I’d want the weapon itself to work in a completely different manner than the general standard.

(Smooth) #54

The shotgun is definitely getting changes that you’ll see soon-ish.

That’s all you’re getting from me until you have the update :tongue:

(Ashog) #55

Noooooooooooo! Tell us moar! NAO! :slight_smile:

(Breo) #56

[video=youtube_share;VtMO-omeo5s]http://youtu.be/VtMO-omeo5s[/video]

(Ashog) #57

I think this fits the thread best! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

//youtu.be/Tmah6roew4A

(iwound) #58

stop messin abouuuut.
[video=youtube_share;G6dlt4qbQfU]http://youtu.be/G6dlt4qbQfU[/video]

(WindKun) #59

[QUOTE=iwound;432251]Question is, which weapons when receiving a head-shot from should kill you with one shot?

My choices would be.
1.sniper long range, but not short range.
2.explosives.

My belief is that a 1 head-shot kill with other weapons is a current issue with players and myself. A few times ive killed an enemy purely by luck and not skill, if they had full health and more skill they should be given a last chance to defend them selves. also given the inaccuracies of shot detection, as it’ll never be perfect. if it was an occasional thing its ok but its all the time. and im not just saying this from the perspective of a victim but also as the killer. at full health a player deserves even a slim chance of defending him/her self, and if they are rubbish they will die pretty quickly anyway. i dont want to increase ttk just bring the two extremes closer together.

the difference between a medium range body shot and a close range head-shot seem quite large to me. Would it be better to close the gap a little? so another way of saying that maybe is decrease max ttk but increase min ttk. so not the overall average ttk. Does that make any sense to someone, anyone?

I will admit that weapon stats are not my strength so feel free to tell me im talkin ollox.:D[/QUOTE]

Heck I believe anything via Sniper above the waist should be a one hit kill - Especially with the size of that Sniper Rifle - You would be gutted like a pig no stomach lining left and bleed out rather quickly if hit with that bad-boy.

Mines / Arty Strike

The Shotgun shout be a close up 2 shot killer - Seems to be 3-4 or I am having poor aim -laughs-

(tokamak) #60

Exactly! It takes more skill to make a cover a large surface with a wide angle than to cover a small surface with a wide angle. That’s why you shouldn’t add damage bonuses for something that’s outside of your control.

Instead the shotgun needs damage bonuses through stacking the damage by pellets.