zero counterplay

(cobaltRetreiver) #1

This is ridiculous.

Either you play Phantom or you get pissed because there is not a single class that counters phantom nor is there a single strategy that counters phantom.

Ohh, you spot an invisible cloud coming towards you, well congrats you are going to die, there is nothing you can do. Ohh you can shotgun it in the head point blank and sniper it in the head, but ohh yeah he’s nigh un-killable if he’s invisible.

Well wait, you know that he’s coming surely you should have some sort of counter play if you are facing him and shooting him. Nope, if you are playing a support class he one shots you even from the front. If your playing any otehr class is DPS with the katana matches or eclipses yours. If he is ever outmatched, he’ll invis and saok up all that damage and escaping like nothing ever happened.

Get in a gun fight with shank ninja, he’ll just invis block all your DPS then either shoot you or stab you.

My favorite is when he sits in your spawn and instagibs you.

I want to buy him just to get every single human being who has paid good money to have a good experience rage quit your terrible game. I know, you think riot is on to something by making sure every new class you release is OP and thereby assuring that every noob on the planet buys it. Welp I have news for you, its called no one wants to play against a class that offers up ZERO counter play. I have seen game after game of the “best” player (the person with highest score) being rape ninja camping spawns and racking up kills. 10 minutes in the teams are 7 v 4, because guess what? NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY WITH SCUM SACKS THAT USE ABUSIVE CLASSES TO BREAK EVERY GOOD PLAYER FOR THEIR EFFORT!

(CCP115) #2

I also dislike Phantom.

Everyone else also dislikes Phantom.

We all dislike Phantom in his current state.

It’s like paid mods, it sucked when it first came out, and it better get reworked and come back better.

(Para) #3

Rhino and Fletcher counter phantom pretty well.

(titaniumCrouton) #4

Rhino, Vasilli, Fletcher are counters…red-eye will be a counter…

Grouping is a counter.

Proxy can serve as a pseudo counter will good mine placement.

There is plenty of counter and counter-play. >_> People are just lazy.

(PurpleNurple) #5

A nerf to him is coming. Just make sure to tbag any phantom you kill as its the unspoken rule of DB.

(Gi.Am) #6

Every Merc can counter Phantom (or rather win a fight against him). Mercs that are slower than him can’t be oneshotted and Mercs that can be oneshotted can outrun him.

The main counter is being aware tho. His invisibilty makes a sound. He is partially visible while moving. All you got to do is keep your distance and shoot him. His shield only holds as long as he isn’t attacking himself and drains with every step he takes. And while he is still trying to reach you with his katana (which he can’t if you back away) you have taken away his shield and started to chip down his HP. By the time he has quit fumbling with switching his weapon you more likely than not have killed him.

But depending on the changes we will see next patch that might be irelevant or not working anymore.

(ev1ldarks) #7

Very bad idea B) 'cause currently he can kill (one shot) 3 players with only 1 katana strike lol

(Eox) #8

They counters bad Phantoms. Not the ones that will use and abuse the KEK-10. Bad phantoms will just try to dumbly melee you without even thinking about their primary weapon. Rhino shouldn’t have an issue countering that (except maybe if the guy has the Chopper Augment with the Katana), and Fletcher will have to put up stickies and wait for the Phantom player to quit his invisibility, which is not easy because that Katana has a a long reach and lasting hitboxes.

Those that use the KEK-10 will screw up Fletcher from across the map with a SMG that outDPS your Empire 9. They’ll also unload their whole KEK-10 clip in Rhino’s face, killing him in less than one second (256 DPS). As Fletcher, they have more HP than you, they deal more damage than you, they are much more ranged than you, they are almost as fast than you, they are very hard to ambush and you can’t benefit from being the first guy to hit, because the invisibility armor prevents that.

Anyway, Phantom tweaks are on their way. Hopefully they’ll highly skill index him, while getting rid of the most annoying mechanics.

(titaniumCrouton) #9

Very bad idea B) 'cause currently he can kill (one shot) 3 players with only 1 katana strike lol
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If they’re all idiots, sure.

(Gi.Am) #10

Very bad idea B) 'cause currently he can kill (one shot) 3 players with only 1 katana strike lol
[/quote]

He means grouping in a military sense i.e. stay apart a couple of meters but stay close enough so that everyone covers everyone. That is not only sound advise against Phantom (a melee phantom would have to travel from merc to merc, while the whole team could easily crossfire him down the whole time) but also a great way to ensure that a grenade doesn’t kill the whole team.

@Eox I have to disagree with you on this one. A ranged Phantom is exactly as OP as any other ranged merc you didn’t see. The only advantage Phantom has, is that he has a easier time getting into those advantagious positions. But obviously a Bushwhacker, who flanks a Rhino and shoots first, will kill him just as fast (same weapon). Same goes for pretty much any weapon since they all reach DPS values above 200. However keep in mind that having it easier to get in a good position is essentially his whole ability, thats all there is (katana aside for a moment, it is broken right now). That is all he has to compete with mines, airstrikes, healing, turrets, wallhacks, grenades and so on.

(Suave) #11

-Just don’t defuse a bomb or repair an EV with 5 people, there’s always only 1 able to repair it, priority is given to engineers.
-by grouping up i’m sure he meant “watch eachother’s backs”
-keep your eyes and ears open, he’s really not that hard to spot.
-1v1 he SHOULD get you, your team should kill him really easy as soon as you fall though
-Phantom is pretty situational, i think Fragger’s a better pick 90% of the time
-use voice, there’s in-game voice too, listen to eachother and warn eachother, there’s a reason u barely see Phantoms in competitive play

(capriciousParsely) #12

There is no counter against a good player with aim that stealths behind you and shoots you before you even have time to react. The bad Phantoms will melee you, but the good ones uses their KEK. You simply cannot react and even if you do their first shot will eff up your aim so you can’t shoot back.

(ChinChill) #13

Countering Phantom isn’t really that hard from the games I’ve played.

It isn’t a set amount of damage the cloak blocks, it’s only the next blow to hit him. You could whip out a pistol, fire the cloak off then switch to something more powerful. Explosives, due to their large spread, can also catch a Phantom off guard and remove his cloak. For specifics, setting a Proxy mine in doorways or in ‘back’ routes a Phantom can use to sneak behind the action can catch him and remove it; just pay attention to getting the xp for a tripped mine but no kill. Even if it’s not Phantom, someone’s going behind you. Vassili’s heart monitor also removes the cloak the moment he’s detected.

It is possible to see through his invis but it requires a constant look-out rather than a brief scan, which most people are used to. His cloak is really loud too.

But given the incoming maintenance, they might change how his cloak functions. We’ll see if all this holds true after it’s hit.

(Jemmy) #14

@cobaltRetreiver you need get some hours on him and post results.