XP Level gates are not the way

(Gi.Am) #1

Ok this is mainly about ranked but also about XP Level in general.

I’m Level 16 on the verge of becoming Level 17. I play since the stresstests that means I level since day one.
The nice thing about this is everyone has started leveling with me. However quite a few players that started at the same time are past Level 30 propably hitting the 40-50 already.

The Big difference between me and the guys that have twice the level (and keep in mind that every level takes increasingly more XP) ?
They constantly top the scoreboard and I don’t. I’m not doing anything wrong from a gameplay point of view. I play accordingly to the Merc and the current objective. The real difference? The topdogs average a 2.0 K/D or higher while I’m more a 0.8 or lower.

I’m not bitter, just pointing out that XP levels to a degree reflects your combat skills and not your knowledge of the game.
What makes this even worse is the fact that the ability to get higher combat XP increases with the ammount of players. You have more people to shoot at. At the same time getting high Support and Game XP gets harder. on an 8 vs 8 server its not only harder to reach an objective but the chances are higher that they are more engineers in the team basically fighting over the same Game XP pool. Same goes for support skills.

This also affects the lower levels. Someone with good aim coming from another shooter, only minding K/D will level faster than a person that lacks those skill. Therefore the guy that plays Vassili 24/7 sitting way behind will be the guy that tumbles into ranked first. Still not knowing how to play. Unfortunaly those are the same that will hit level 10 weeks before those, that always sit in the middle of the scoreboard and do everything to support the team and get the objective going but are not good shots (you know the ones we actually want in our ranked team).

I want to propose a different system to gate ranked play. That imo is more suited to keep those out that don’t know the game yet.

Create 4 onetime missions for 2,5k credits. That are harder versions to the missions we have now.
The 3 XP missions but twice the ammount of XP compared to the regular ones. 1 play X games of Stopwatch (with X higher 10).
You have to clear out all 4 missions before you can play ranked.

The XP missions will ensure that everyone that hits ranked has played for objective / support XP and knows how to shoot things. The mandatory stopwatch matches would ensure that they know the gamemode itself and that they played most maps in it atleast once.

The 2,5k for each would be a nice incentive that dangles before people to get going with stopwatch and some support work. It would also mean that new players get a 10k bonus that can go towards a merc they might be missing for a better ranked Squad.

Now for those that are allready ranked I would say they should also get the missions just so they are not missing out on the 10k and to catch those that are not up to snuff yet (they still can play ranked ofcourse).

(ThatRandomGuy) #2

Im level 14, and believe me i didnt know half the crap on how to play efficiently until yesterday. Got into a round with a level 36 guy, at first i thought he was cheating…So i told my steam friends about him…So we called him out and told him he was cheating and we wanted to check him out (the real reason was to spectate him and watch the gameplay)

So,me and my 2 friends spectated the guy for a total of 4 rounds…In the end we learned a lot, i mean A LOT . On how to do a lot of random stuff, including long jump knifing (which i didnt know)

Higher level guys do have better skills than us lowbies, spectate them and learn, since that gives you real time moves…You can compare what you wouldave done at a situation to what they did and improve yourself…

Im not saying im really good but 90% of the time my KD will be about 1.4+ and maybe 1-2% times -ve KD (when im against uber pros)

(Szakalot) #3

I think you got a lot of stuff wrong @Gi.Am :

  • the vast majority (99%) of >lvl30 players are closed beta players. We’ve been amassing our stats from January. The remaining 1% are cheaters and XP farmers
  • lvl means squat; again, those lvl30 players are good cause they are likely having +1 year of in-game experience over you (ive been playing for 11months, I sure hope so I can play better than someone with 50hours in)
  • support XP is much faster on 8v8 servers; esp. as a medic - you never run out of people to revive
  • game XP can be indeed a little harder to get, except if its an EV map (bridge/chapel) on attack: multiple enemy skyhammer’s will keep disabling your EV, allowing for lots XP to amass.
  • this is a very heavily skill-based game. if you consistently lose 1on1s you are likely dragging your team down (sorry). First and foremost skill any player needs to have, is the ability to win firefights. Pubs are won by better aim above everything else - sure, you need teamplay - but if I can consistently kill two enemies at once; their ‘teamplay’ won’t help them much - will it?
(XavienX) #4

What…no? I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about, it just doesn’t make sense…

(Gi.Am) #5

[quote=“Szakalot;35054”]I think you got a lot of stuff wrong @Gi.Am :

  • the vast majority (99%) of >lvl30 players are closed beta players. We’ve been amassing our stats from January. The remaining 1% are cheaters and XP farmers
  • lvl means squat; again, those lvl30 players are good cause they are likely having +1 year of in-game experience over you (ive been playing for 11months, I sure hope so I can play better than someone with 50hours in)
  • support XP is much faster on 8v8 servers; esp. as a medic - you never run out of people to revive
  • game XP can be indeed a little harder to get, except if its an EV map (bridge/chapel) on attack: multiple enemy skyhammer’s will keep disabling your EV, allowing for lots XP to amass.
  • this is a very heavily skill-based game. if you consistently lose 1on1s you are likely dragging your team down (sorry). First and foremost skill any player needs to have, is the ability to win firefights. Pubs are won by better aim above everything else - sure, you need teamplay - but if I can consistently kill two enemies at once; their ‘teamplay’ won’t help them much - will it?[/quote]

No you didn’t and thats my point when the game went into permanent close beta at the end of march XP got wiped. So a Level 30 + is not a higher level because he has a half year headstart at leveling. He is higher because he is more skilled in the game.

The problem with ranked right now are highly unbalanced games.
that imbalance comes from 3 sources.

  • Leavers
  • Skill difference (combat)
  • gametype knowledge

Leavers I leave out (there are other treads already)

Skill difference, should be taken into account by the ranking system itself, i.e. matching people of similar combat poweress together based on past performance.

Gametype knowledge is what I’m trying to get at. Quite often you end up with people that while maybe winning their fights don’t know what to do, for example ignoring C4 or not trying to push the EV in critical situations.
To fix that people suggest to raise the bar i.e. increase the entry level from 5 to 10.
What I was trying to show (maybe with too much words) is that the XP level isn’t a good Stat to sort out wether someone will be a helpful player in a ranked match or not. I think using a mechanism that would reflect that better (like a mission gate) would ensure that people can join ranked as soon as they understand the game mechanics (including combat since combat XP is still one of the missions) instead of raising XP levels to a point where it either takes too long or tnx to double XP people get there before they are ready.

PS. While you are right that more players means more revive/repair oppurtunities it also means more medics and engineers in your team and that slows down your XP gain in those categories. Simple example I play bushwhacker if someone else is a proxy he will reach the objective faster. Now as a smart knowing player I will do everything to guard the already repairing proxy, increasing my combat XP but decreasing my game XP.

(Dirmagnos) #6

I kinda disagree with “if you die a lot then its bad”.
Game is objective based, so as long as you keep on pushing and manage to get that EV a bit further every time, or something similar, you are doing the right thing and are in no way a burden for a team, compared to wannabe sharpshooters who just farm kd and do extremely little to advance the mission.
I had plenty of games, where i was acting like a crazy lemming, just rushing generator room on Bridge with Proxy and finally getting that plant(while rest of the team is 2 busy fragging) or standing back, while rest of the team is spawncamping, allowing me to kill maybe just 1 guy, but one who made past that blocade and made it to EV. I consider those good games.
KD means shit. Whats the point of Sawbonez, who stacks kills and uses medpacks only for himself or Bushwacker, who runs past armed dyna, so that he could plant his belowed turret somewhere out there.

(Szakalot) #7

[quote=“Dirmagnos;35136”]I kinda disagree with “if you die a lot then its bad”.
Game is objective based, so as long as you keep on pushing and manage to get that EV a bit further every time, or something similar, you are doing the right thing and are in no way a burden for a team, compared to wannabe sharpshooters who just farm kd and do extremely little to advance the mission.
I had plenty of games, where i was acting like a crazy lemming, just rushing generator room on Bridge with Proxy and finally getting that plant(while rest of the team is 2 busy fragging) or standing back, while rest of the team is spawncamping, allowing me to kill maybe just 1 guy, but one who made past that blocade and made it to EV. I consider those good games.
KD means shit. Whats the point of Sawbonez, who stacks kills and uses medpacks only for himself or Bushwacker, who runs past armed dyna, so that he could plant his belowed turret somewhere out there.[/quote]

im not saying dying a lot is bad. But you have to get the kills too, if you are to hope to get anywhere in this game. the only merc that doesn’t have to get kills is sparks, but she better revive everyone before they touch the ground

(Fuze) #8

Bud, I’m telling you right now, as someone who tops the scoreboard with Fletcher, easily getting 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 or higher k/d rates per match, I’m still playing the objective and in most cases, I’m single-handedly carrying my team to victory, being the only competent engineer in the team. When it comes right down to it, every mercs primary objective is to kill opposing players. Even if you’re a medic, you’re going to be shooting far more than you’ll be throwing down healing stations or reviving teammates. The same goes for us engineers. In reality, the only useless player is the one who ignores the enemy and rushes behind their lines for the sake of messing with the objective. Clear them out, push up with your team and you’ll have a vastly higher chance of succeeding. In other words, everyone is helping, including that Vassili who is farming kills from behind. Well, assuming he is also utilizing his ability correctly. Either way, killing players is not just about pushing them back. In actuality, the more you kill someone, the more likely their moral will drop. Drop an enemy teams moral low enough and you guarantee victory. Even two evenly matched teams can end up in a stomping match. When both teams clash in the first encounter, the team that loses the most players after that initial fight is also the team that loses the most moral. Of course it’s not a massive loss, but now they are at a minor disadvantage, making it more likely that they will also be pushed back in the next encounter. From there, it becomes progressively easier for the other team to win. So in closing, those lv30+ really do deserve their XP, assuming they aren’t hacking.

(ThatRandomGuy) #9

How do you even play alone? Dont you feel tired, bored n stuff?

At anytime, i would have atleast 1 friend with me…We carry each other…I hate carrying…

(Szakalot) #10

How do you even play alone? Dont you feel tired, bored n stuff?

At anytime, i would have atleast 1 friend with me…We carry each other…I hate carrying…

[/quote]

go to the min lvl10 servers: the lack of carrying is a huge relief there

(joekerr) #11

This is exactly it. I’m lvl 32 and my kdr is probably around .8 as well (I rush into battle and will happily die 4 times straight if it means getting the objective).

The other thing about the kdr stuff is there are guys who do absurd amounts of tweaking to the game. No it’s not “hacking”, but their game “plays” completely differently than what you and I (or anyone using default settings) is playing with.

This takes us into “well if SD didn’t create such a shitty game experience we wouldn’t have to optimize it so much, don’t blame us, blame SD”. And whether that’s right or wrong is irrelevant, point is in any given server not all players are playing with the same parameters (like would be the case of say a gaming console).

It’s just the way FPS are today… it’s not about skill so much as it is about optimization… beating people out through better equipment and better optimizations. But the other side will say 'no no, the optimizations are just cosmetic, their score is purely a function of skill." (which we all know is bullshit).

You then tie XP to kdr and you’ve got a shit show where people focus on kdr to gain the xp. (not to mention this is yet another aspect that encourages people to hack).

It is what it is. SD didn’t think through the XP system nearly enough if you ask me.

(Fuze) #12

How do you even play alone? Dont you feel tired, bored n stuff?

At anytime, i would have atleast 1 friend with me…We carry each other…I hate carrying…

[/quote]

I’m sure hundreds of my friends and fans would be willing to give the game a go and play it with me. The problem being that Dirty Bomb would just turn into a SEAL Team 6 simulator. I’d rather just sit back, turn on epic music and start piling up bodies. This isn’t the case with all games, but Dirty Bomb is basically my current happy place.